EP 67: Organizing Everything with Lisa Woodruff

This week’s episode is all about systems and organization. I interviewed Lisa Woodruff the creator of Organization 365 and the author of The Paper Solution. Organization is a learnable skill. Lisa and I are both former teachers and we talk about teaching our kiddos how to take care of their spaces, stuff and how we can empower our families through imperfect action. This is such good news because that means if we aren’t yet organized we can learn it and if our kids aren’t yet organized they can learn too!

Tami: Good morning. 

Lisa: Good morning. 

Tami: So happy to see her face. Okay. So who are you and what do you do in the world? 

Lisa: So my name is Lisa Woodruff. I am the founder and owner of organized three 65 and I help busy women get their home and paper organized in one year with functional systems that work. 

Tami: I just got chills because, Oh my God, I help women get their time and energy back so they can go after their big dreams and maybe not be chased by their paper monsters.

So Lisa, tell me. How you work with people and more importantly, tell me about your brand new book, the paper solution. 

Lisa: Yes. So originally with people was one on one as a professional organizer, but now I'm more like your adult teacher and I teach you through the organized three 65 podcast. And if you like my teaching style, then you can go deeper with books and courses.

And in our online communities, And the paper solution is my newest book out. And it's being published by penguin random house. And it is 

Tami: all about how to 

Lisa: organize paper. There really is not a good book out there. That's not just the digital solution, but how do we actually do the act of organizing, going from stuffed piling cabinets to a solution that is ready to be digitized that in between organizational phase, that's where I live.

Tami: And what I did again, I got chills because I actually worked with a professional organizer last year for six months. And one of the things we did is we took four file for like many to Dirk bile cabinets down to one. And I thought, there's no way this is possible, but it is possible. So I have all of these clients that I work with.

And one of the things that they say is. God, if I could just be more organized, I'm like, I know people who can help you. I know people who do this for a living. So tell me a little bit more about the book. What could people expect about, um, helping slay that, um, that paper dragon, I call it deferred.

Decisions. Yes. I call it my shame pile. So tell us how you help people get rid of that in their home so they can move forward and live a more peaceful existence. Yes. 

Lisa: So your audience that is starting to get organized. I could tell you right now where they're starting in their closet or they're starting their kitchen.

That's where everybody starts, because that's where we spend most of our time. And the benefit of starting in your kitchen or in your closet is there's a plethora of information. There are books, there are videos, there's Pinterest, there's all these examples of what it looks like when you're done. When you're doing paper organization, it looks like a color coded filing cabinet.

Like how does that help you? It helps you with aesthetically, what it looks like. But it doesn't teach you anything about the categories of paper. And so what I did in the paper solution book was 

Tami: I took your paper 

Lisa: and I made it feel like different categories of clothing or different categories in your kitchen.

So you're like, Oh, these are all medical papers. These are all financial papers. These are all kid related papers. These are all actionable papers. And then once you got a category of paper, I said, okay, great. Now we have all of our. Medical paper, honestly, most of what you do for medical is still in your brain.

So I need to give you these worksheets and I need you to fill these out and put them with the rest of your medical papers. So you have a complete medical binder. That was the other thing I found with paper. It's not just being able to categorize and trim down the paper. We have 

Tami: a lot of the really 

Lisa: important part of paper is in our brain or on our computer.

And not digitized on our computer, but like it's medical records that are in the program that our pediatrician has for our kids. And we go and we get that and we print it out and you added in the binder. So our filing cabinet is about a third what's on the internet is about a third and what's in your brain is about a third.

And you add all that together and then you have complete binders and there are four binders that really will help you feel more organized. 

Tami: And I love this idea of getting it out of your brain because. So many people feel overwhelmed because they're BK because there's like the clutter of the paper and the like, Oh my God, what do I do?

And why did, why does school send home so many papers? And what's the deal. But also it's that constant feeling like you're missing something feeling like it's not quite complete. And that drains so much of people's energy. So I'm super excited about this book. 

Lisa: you're using your brain like a, to do list and your brain is a super a computer that's supposed to be planning out the visions and the unique thing that you were created to do in the world.

You're using it to remember to get milk and to schedule another haircut. And so if you could start using paper for that and a weekly planning time and a couple of binders that run your household, you're going to free up your brain to do things like think. And it's, um, it's amazingly freeing. 

Tami: Yeah. yes it is.

And again, the other side of that is so I help people get their time and energy back so they can go up to their big dreams. But a lot of times when you ask people what they really want, what is their vision? When you ask them, who are you going to be in 25 years? They're like, I have no idea because I have to order that school uniform, how am I going to handle distance learning?

And what do I do with all this stupid paper? So between the two of us, we can really get people thinking in this bigger, more global, like how can I be somebody who creates the world? I want to see it's you stop worrying about. All the paper, 

Lisa: a hundred percent. It's the paper in the house. And I was finding the same exact thing.

Like I say, spend 12 to 18 months with me and then go out and do what you were uniquely created to be in the world. And then people say, Lisa, I'm organized. How do I do that? What I was finding for many women is that they would start to. Do what they were uniquely created to do if they knew what that was.

And then something falls apart at home and then they give themselves guilt and shame about the fact that they didn't have it perfect at home. So I have to give up that dream and go home and make sure all the laundry is done and all the dishes are done and the house is clean and everything is organized before I'm allowed.

To leave the house like Cinderella and go do anything. And as soon as I am on a plane or over here, and something falls apart at home, it's my responsibility that fell apart at home. And what I hear from people once they get their paper in their home, organized is they are literally out doing something and they get that call.

Where is this paper? How do we do this? And they go, it's in the third pink slash in the Sunday basket, go get it. And they feel like a rock star and they go on with it. Yeah. Life. 

Tami: But if their 

Lisa: house is in cleaned and organized enough where they can give those directions, whether they should be responsible for that or not, let's just not even get into that.

Are apparently 

Tami: when you get an organized, 

Lisa: you get time and then you get freedom because you can give directions to people who are still at home and asking those things of you. 

Tami: and you can also empower the other people in your house to follow the systems that are set up. So I have a rising fourth grader, so my kid's about to be 10.

And one of the things that I hear over and over, and she has ADHD and some sensory stuff, but what I hear over and over again is she always knows where her things are at school. And it cracks me up because I'm like, of course she does because she has a system because we've been working on systems.

For her entire life. So every time she says, where are my shoes? I'm like, I would definitely look in the shoe basket first after that, I don't know you're on your own. If you didn't use the system that we've created, but there's a really good likelihood that they found themselves back where they belong, because we have a system you've been using the system, we use the system and it just helps free up everyone in the house.

And it also empowers. Are you are young people. I know you have or kids, but it empowers them to think, Oh, I know how to run a house. Because I learned this step by step way to make these things happen. 

Lisa: you're pointing out that organization is a learnable skill. It is going to take some people longer to learn it, but it is a learnable skill.

So my children both have learning disabilities, ADHD, sensory, just add just. They're all the, we have most of the diagnoses you're going to throw at us. One of them has it. So my son extreme ADHD learned to organize very quickly. He's very much a minimalist. And so he doesn't have very many, his thing was, Oh, if I have nothing, the mom can't make me stay in my room to organize my room that worked for him.

My daughter loves lots of things. She loves she's very eclectic. So to get her to learn, to organize her room took 18 months. Of me doing it every single Saturday with her and the whole first month was her laying on the bed while I did it verbally telling her what I was doing in overtime. Just this week, she's reorganizing her basement apartment.

She is 19 years old, comes up in our bedroom and she goes, I don't know where to start. I said, great. Go get all the laundry and start the laundry. So she goes away, comes back half an hour later. Okay. At the laundry started, what do I do next month? Okay. Go get all the trash. So I'm going through what we learned 10 years prior when I taught her at the age of nine, but she and my son too.

He'll call me. He's like my apartment's over. Where do I start? Okay. Joey, get a little laundry, started calls and call me back, get all the trash, go call me back. And I created this little system for them that eventually they stopped coming in my bedroom and stop calling me because I got them going in that mode of what it takes to organize this.

Space, their space has just gotten bigger than their bedroom. It's a learnable skill. We get stuffed in overwhelmed when it gets too big and out of control. And we need to get it back in order again. So 

Tami: you used to be a teacher. I used to be a teacher. So I think that for people who are listening, who are not teachers, one of the things I hear from non-teachers is this is one of my favorite questions.

They go, how many times am I have to talk to my kid about X I'm? Like. As many as it takes for them to stop asking for help, like that's all, as long as it takes, the reason they're asking is because they don't know yet. So make it really teachable. 

Lisa: And also everyone has their own bandwidth for what they can handle, like, so I'm recording a whole bunch of interviews today and then I'm going to drive from Cincinnati to Columbus to be something for my son and home.

And my husband's like, aren't you going to be exhausted? And I'm like, yeah, but it's important. And I'm just going to do it. And I have that capacity. He doesn't have that capacity. So for our children growing up, they have never done a chores. Like 

Tami: they 

Lisa: don't do dishes. They didn't learn to do laundry until they were 18 years old was a huge, okay.

Endeavor for them. And they needed a lot of downtime and they had a lot of anxiety. So it's not that everything is learnable. So because it's learnable, everyone has to do everything perfectly. And until you have all your chores done, you can't relax. Like you have to be realistic with everybody's different capacity levels.

But if you want to teach something, if you want to learn something, there is a way to do it. 

Tami: Yeah, and I feel like, but it's having, we use a lot of checklists in our house and we use a lot of visual reminders and we use a lot of one, one at a time. There's not a lot of, um, since we've been doing distance learning, obviously we're in the 20, 20 era.

Um, one of the things, so we don't have a house cleaner anymore, which is both devastating and amazing because I'm like, It's a bummer to clean your own house. You guys, we all know that's part of my self care. However, I took every single job. Like I broke down how to clean a bathroom and I put every single step on a posted note.

And then I put it in the bathroom with us and I brought my nine year old and I was like, what's one of the pick a thing. Let's do it. And so I've been systematically teaching her each part and every time we're in the tiny bathroom together and we only have one bathroom, but that thing is spit shined within an inch of its life because she's like, mama, this is so fun because we're in there together.

She's learning grownups skill. I'm like you are going to be the best roommate anyone has ever had. Starting with me being your roommate. I really want somebody else to know how to clean the bathroom. And if you think this is fun, I caught you at the right age. But, and if 

Lisa: you don't have your house cleaner right now, or you're like, Oh, it would be nice to have a house cleaner.

I can let you know it's seven weeks before dust becomes noticing. So go ahead. 

Tami: Everything 

Lisa: that the house cleaner was doing every other week. I didn't have to do every other week. Now, the bathrooms, they tend to get dirty every week. Cause apparently I don't do as good of a job as she does that. It makes it two weeks.

And I like to vacuum every week, but dusting, you can go a full seven weeks before you even notice the dust and then it's unbearable. And so you can dust like every two months, 

Tami: right? Or you could say, Hey, it would be fun four year old, put these socks on your hands and let them do it really imperfectly.

Lisa: Yep. 

Tami: Once a week and then maybe at the two month Mark, you're like, okay, really? I need to do that. What is the one time to start over? But I love this idea of delegation and teaching. And finally, one of the things finally feeling relaxed and. Like I got this, like, I feel like that's one thing that really helps people relax, is feeling like, ah, okay, I can do this.

Lisa: One of the things I say and people really tend to glom onto is you do realize there are no organizing police, right? Like, no one's coming in your house and they're going to walk through and go, Oh my gosh, you know what, if you really would have finished this and you're looking for this, you walk through your house and you see every single thing that is undone.

But when you go in your family member's house or your best friend's house, you don't see anything that's undone, but you feel like when they come in your house, they do it. First of all, nobody's going in anybody's houses. So feel free, get it done. But nobody's noticing that you're so much harder on yourself than anybody else's 

Tami: give 

Lisa: yourself.

Grace. And I like to put all of my energy into my bedroom, my bathroom, my closet. Because that's where I live. And so you have one bathroom, Tammy, so it'd be your one bathroom, your closet, your bedroom. I am in control of that space. I'm an adult woman. and that is the only space in my house truly in control of.

I tell you what right now, if I walked downstairs, the family room and it is not perfect, it is never, it's only purpose when the housekeeper's here. It's not even perfect when I do it. And I am fine with that. Because my bedroom is the way I want it to be, find one space in your house that you are in control of and have that be the way you want it.

and have that be good enough, like at the end of the day, that is good enough. 

Tami: okay, we get stop here because everybody's like, good enough. I'm going to have to work. I'm going to have to work on my good enough skills. That's a hard one to work on, right? Yeah. Okay. So how long ago did you leave the classroom?

Like, tell me a little bit more, cause I need to know like, Almost 10 years for me. 

Lisa: Yeah. So it was eight and a half years. It was the day before winter break, 2011. And I had to stay after for some teacher meeting that was not necessary. It could have been some other time and my kids needed me at home and I couldn't be at home.

And it was a serious thing I needed to be home for. The worst thing was after that teacher meeting, my administrator kept me back and proceeded to tell me what a bad teacher I am. And how bad I was at my job and I was 39 years old. And I finally was to the point where I was like, you know what? I'm not a bad teacher.

I am a good teacher. I've been doing this for 18 months to the detriment of everything else in my life, my house, my marriage, my kids, everything is gone. Second place to this school job. And you're telling me that this school chop I'm not good at. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to wake up 10 years from now.

My kids are going to be raised. I will not have been the mother I wanted to be, and I will have done what given my whole life to this school job where this administrator thinks I'm not a good job. I thought, if I'm failing at teaching fine, somebody else can step in January and become the teacher.

And I'm going to be the mom. I want to be. Even if that means we go into more debt. One of the benefits of being gen X is we have credit. So I had credit cards and so I use them and I quit my job and I started organize three 65, January 1st of 2012. My house was in the worst shape it has ever been in. I was at the most disorganized I've ever been.

I was at the lowest point of my entire life. And I was like, for the rest of my life, the one thing I'm uniquely created to do is talk about organizing. I have no idea. How we'll make money at this or what I will do. I just know that I could talk about organizing for the rest of my life and I will figure it out and I will become a better mom and I will be there for my 

Tami: kids.

That is incredible. I was, I loved teaching. I was great at it, but what I didn't love was that they were asking me to do stuff that. Um, I thought it was unreasonable because I'm like, you don't, I'm a human being, Because here's the thing. I didn't become a teacher until I was 33. So it was my second career.

So my principal, my first year, my principal, when I was a first year teacher kept asking me to do stuff. And I was like, get out of my room. I am busy trying to learn how to do this job. Quit asking me to do extra stuff. And she goes, but you're a new teacher. And I was like, But I'm also a grown woman.

I'm not 23 

Lisa: out of my room. 

Tami: Go ask somebody who has a hard time saying no. And she was like, why? She's like, I don't know if you are the best teacher or the worst teacher. Like I am the person that has the best boundaries get out of my room. I need to figure out how to do this job. And I also learned the more self care I applied to any job I'm doing the better I do it.

So that brings me to my question, which is. How does self care affect your work as a speaker, as an organizer, as an adult educator, as a entrepreneur? Like how do you take care of yourself? So you can wear all the hats because you are running like an empire of organizing. I 

Lisa: love this question because, um, I don't know.

I was raised with a lot of guilt and a lot of perfection, and so I never feel like I'm good enough. Or, uh, like often it'll be like seven o'clock at night and I'll be talking to my husband and I'll say, all right, it's seven o'clock at night. I could go work for more and more hour, but I really want to take a bath and work on my puzzle.

And he's like, it's seven o'clock at night. Go do the puzzle. I'm like, yeah, but I could work till eight. Like in my mind. And I also think it's the American woman is like this, that we have work and then we have household and then we have parenting and then we're allowed to have just this little, teeny, tiny bit of self care and like a bath counts that counts it's okay.

For years, that was myself. It was one 15 minute bath. And now I've added like an hour of puzzling to that. And I feel so guilty. Doing a jigsaw puzzle on a Tuesday night. And now I'm to the point where I'm like, my kids are raised, my house is good enough. Yes. There are dishes. I really don't care.

I'm going to go upstairs. I'm going to draw the bath. I'm going to do the puzzle. And I'm going to listen to a podcast or I'm going to watch TV, or I'm going to read a book. And 

Tami: I still today at the 

Lisa: age of 48 go, no, it's okay. It's five 30. You're allowed to quit working. Like I have to tell myself I'm allowed to quit working.

I just think it's something that we innately have in us. 

Tami: I don't know, it's innately. I think it might be very cultural. I think it might be. I think it's like that thing where you're like, here is your rattle and here is your responsibility to take care of other people. And I am also gen X. I just turned 50 in March.

And one of the things that, and I grew up in California, so I think there is actually cultural differences as we go through the States and through the ages. So my mom, uh, She very much said this to me. Don't do what I did. And I was like, Oh yeah. Cause that doesn't look that look like Sandy, that doesn't look very fun.

I don't want to eat that shit sandwich. I'm going to try not to. But, so it was interesting that she was like, don't do what I did, but there was no rad, no roadmap to do it differently. Instantly feel like I'm rubbing up against. Culture, which I am 100% guilt-free self care. So in 2016 I interviewed a hundred women and I said, where's it going?

where's it not going? blah, blah, blah. What's your big, deep, dark secret. And I super majority of people said it's selfish. And I was like, girl knocked me over with a feather because yeah, it's not in my mind. It's not selfish because if my family of three is a stool. We had to take care of all three legs or the T or the stool falls down.

Lisa: Yeah. 

Tami: There's nothing more annoying than that. The wobbly table, because one of the legs is all wonky. So if we, you guys have people in your family, if there's a wonky leg on your table, everybody suffers. So it's actually, here we go. Here's the twist. It's actually beneficial to your, the family that the mom Peggy taken care of and the dad peg is taken care of.

And the kids when everybody's needs are yeah. Oh my God. Everyone's needs are met and we're stronger together. 

Lisa: Yeah, and my kids are 19 and 20 and I realized that a lot of, now I want to be an independent business owner and travel and do all that, these things. But I have conditioned my family that I'm a stay at home mom.

So part of it is the conditioning that I created because I love being a stay at home. Mom. I love it. I love creating our household and being the heart of the home and being available for all these things. But then as the work gets in the way I am primarily a stay at home mom and the work is secondary.

And now as the work is becoming equal or in some cases, the work is becoming more of a priority. It's not received as well. 

Tami: I hear you. And I'm hopeful. I will say, I hear you. And I'm hopeful. Okay. So what did you learn about self care in the seventies and eighties from your folks in the Midwest?

Lisa: Interesting. So my family on both sides to have owned their own businesses all the way back. So my father was a salesman and then he, um, was a partner in his company. My mom owned her own company that she ran out of. The basement started, um, ended up in 26 States before she sold it. So I watched my mom was an entrepreneur and my parents would go to country clubs and my dad would play golf.

And my mom was in the junior league and she was part of a lot of, um, Organizations. And so 

Tami: I guess 

Lisa: for self care, my mom would spend money on her nails and on her hair and nice clothing. She always looked very put together. I guess that's what I would see is self care, but my parents worked morning till night, either socially or, um, they didn't just sit around the house and read a book.

Like there was no just sitting around, they were out doing stuff all of the time. And when I think of self care, I personally think of time where I get. To be alone with my thoughts. Cause I'm a thinker and I like to be visionary and I like to create things. And so I love, just listening podcasts and taking a walk or literally spending an hour, just rabbit trailing on the computer and getting off all new ideas.

I, that, to me, he is self care. I never see saw my parents doing that. 

Tami: Yeah, I, there was a pattern in our house, which was, you only really got to rest when you were sick. I swear. Every time something came through school, everyone in the family would get it. You take a few days off. Cause that could be your like, get better time.

You never got all the way better, but you got back up and you repeated the cycle. 

Lisa: That's interesting. Cause my mom was always sick on Christmas day. Like for years in a row, like on Christmas, she would be on the couch while we were opening up all the presents that she had wrapped in different wrapping paper.

And there's like presence of bum presence, but she was sick always at Christmas time. So made that was so that she could relax. Oh my gosh. That is amazing. 

Tami: Isn't it? Bonkers? And. And I repeated that cycle. So I worked in politics for a decade before I became a teacher, but I was like the one thing I can say that there was a through line, there was two, three lines through my careers and that is, I want to make the world a better place for women and kids.

And I'd like to burn out, get better burnout, get better, get back. Oh, wow. And I find that met people who weren't on that roller coaster of burnout. I was like, who are you guys in? What is the secret? And it came down to. Claiming downtime. And it came down to having really firm time boundaries around work.

And I was like, you can do that. What will you do with all your stuff spare time? And it turns out I like to lay in a hammock and read a book. I've read. I have it's August 6th and I have read 85 books this year. 

Lisa: Congratulations. Thank you. 

Tami: I read and I just started keeping track last year, I read over 140 books last year, because I was like, Oh, when I'm not constantly doing for everyone else, I can fill my brain.

So nobody ever has to read a book again. I can just, that's incredible. Exactly. Okay. So how so puzzles early ending time, bath girls speaking my language. What else do you do for self care? 

Lisa: I okay. So this is maybe not good for my body, but at the end of the day, cause I work for, even though I have a warehouse and in place I work from home and so I'll get in the car and I drive.

Then I get Culver's onion rings, which are the absolute best. And I listen to eighties, music really loud in the car. 

Tami: Okay. I just saw, I was looking at your Instagram stories today about the onion rings and I was like, what it makes these onion rings so special. What's my gosh, 

Lisa: they're hot. And they're salty.

They're hot and they make them, so you have you order them and then you pull ahead. So they come out piping hot. 

Tami: Okay, 

Lisa: they're terrible for you physically, but I really need to find it, but it's the drive. It's the drive and the music and the again, alone in my car. And if the music is up too loud, my gods become so crystal clear it's.

It's unusual. 

Tami: I think it sounds like a meditation to be perfectly honest, but you do a transition. It sounds like you're like, I work really hard at home during the day. And then I end my working day. So it's like, you're commuting. It's the weird thing about commuting when you work at home. I'm in my laundry room right now.

So one of the things I started to do for my commute was my kids' school is a little bit over a mile from our house. So I walk her to school and walk, take a walk around the Capitol. Cause I live near the Capitol in California and then I come home. I clock five miles on my feet and then I go to work.

Lisa: See, that one would be a healthier self care for me. I have started walking in the morning, so that's good, but I have not eliminated the Culver's. 

Tami: And you know what I say, go for it. I love me a barbecue potato chip and any, a French fry and those onion rings. Sound delicious. 

Lisa: My cholesterol numbers are still good.

so far so good. 

Tami: Exactly. I'm here for it. Okay. So where do you think your self care is going well? And what could use a little bit more attention? 

Lisa: So I think what's going is that I have a lot of different self care that I'm doing now and things that could be a little bit different. Um, I think getting more firm with my shutdown time, like all my employees stop at four 30, but I don't stop at four 30.

I usually go later into the day and I obviously work on the weekends. Um, so just finding a better stopping day or having days where I don't do any work at all, which I don't really do that yet. 


Tami: I have to say, no, I not. Here's why? Because I can tell you're super excited about your work. I work part time it's because I have a little kid who's like, Oh no, mama, you, we are doing a thing.

Like I'm constantly playing board games in the middle of the day. let's not forget reading in the hammock, all that, but I tell you what. I wake up most days around four o'clock in the morning. And my brain's like, so anyway, we're going to get up and we're going to do the thing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Lisa: All right. 

Tami: It's exciting when you love your work, 

Lisa: it's exciting. And as it's growing, employing people and hiring more people and placing orders and impacting lives, like it is fun for me. It is really fun for me. I don't feel like work is work hardly ever. And if it is, I'm like, we're not doing that kind of anymore.

Like if there's 

Tami: right. That. Oh, Katie it's. At minute 30, we have a freezing. 

Lisa: I don't think I'm dreading my back yet. 

Tami: Yep. You're back. Yes. 

Lisa: Um, so if I find something is not working in my schedule or I see it on my calendar and I keep moving it further and further down, I will fulfill that obligation. And then I will.

Say we're not doing that anymore. Like, whatever it is, I figure out what the thing is. And I say, my energy, isn't good for that. So we're not going to grow the company in that direction, or we're not going to use that kind of an engagement to grow the brand. 

Tami: Okay. And layman's language because you just used some serious business speak there, which is that thing.

Made me feel like poop and not want to do it. So I'm going to, I am going to finish my obligation cause I am a gal that falls through, but I'm also gonna make a note. I don't ever need to say yes to that again. You guys, you all need to take note of every activity. So one of the things I do at the end of every year is I look at my calendar and I look back from January one all the way.

And I decide if I was going to put that thing on my calendar again, what I want to do it. I got to tell you, Lisa. I've been doing this for years. And I have very few things that I repeat because I also will be like, someone's going to ask you to do this thing. This is what you're going to, I write this in my calendar.

This is how you're going to say no. P S you guys remember that? I have the November challenge where I teach you to how to say no. So you can say yes when it matters coming in November, um, What's your morning routine. 

Lisa: Okay. So it's, it was terrible, but because of the pandemic, all of our structures and our routines got exploded.

And I feel that the number one thing that my audience is struggling with is the fact that their structures and their routines are gone. And even though I work from home, mine 

Tami: got imploded 

Lisa: as well, because, I have other people in the house or my business plans got imploded. And so normally.

I would get up at seven 15, I would get ready. I would start work at eight. That was my morning routine. And the morning routine is really the only routine that you're in control of that your family doesn't derail as much. So proud of myself for the last time. Almost two weeks, I've been getting up at six 30.

And going for a walk and then getting ready and actually starting my day at eight 30 and no meetings until nine. 

Tami: I am loving it. 

Lisa: Oh my gosh. I am loving it so much. 

Tami: What's the, one of the benefits that you can say about this new routine? 

Lisa: So before I would get up and I would listen to a podcast while I was getting ready, but I was so ready before my day.

Now, when I go walking at six 30, I have a friend who lives in the United Kingdom and she Vox has me on this app called Voxer. So I listened to her Vox. And then I talk back to her. We're both business owners. And then I'll start a podcast or I'll listen to other boxers or all even like, watch my Instagram stories as I'm walking around my neighborhood.

And when I get home, I then relax and there's one news app I like, and I read the news stories for the day and then I get in the shower. And by the time I get in the shower, it's the same time I would have gotten in the shower, but I've already gotten so much thinking time done. It's so much connection done and I love it.


Tami: it incredible. I am a proponent of the morning routine and two years ago I added in that walking piece because I had this story, Oh, I don't have time. I only have this limited time to work loud, blah, blah. But I was like, but I did an experiment, Lisa. Cause my daughter was going to summer school.

It was a 20 minute walk away. So I would have a 20 minute there and a 20 minute back and then I had four hours to work and I'd have to pick her up or my husband would pick her up. And so I just decided I'm going to do it five days a week for six weeks and see what changes. And I dare to say people hashtag morning miles will change ever re thing, because I found like my imposter syndrome went away because I was like, what?

Now? It's like, I know this from working with students with ADHD. If they exercise straight away in the morning, a lot of times they're like, Oh my, I can get. To work now because I've already done the hard work in the body. So I was like, let me test it out for my kid and myself and see how it goes. And it changed everything.

And I was like, how am I? Like, how am I able to start a podcast now? How am I able to come home? Put my butt in the chair, work for four hours, get more done in those four hours than I would in a regular, like six to eight hour day. I was like clarity and focus comes with exercise. They really need a rebrand on the exercise.

It's not, it's like the secret to life. 

Lisa: Aye. Aye. Also it's done two other things for me. One it's helped me sleep better at night. Because I'm more tired. Cause literally I would only walk 3000 steps. It's a day people sometimes only a thousand. It was pathetic. So now I'm getting closer to 10,000, which is great.

Think I feel better about myself, but also in order for me to do it in the morning and to do it without worrying about it, I have to write down exactly what I'm doing at work the next day. And I do it on an index card by hour. So when I get it done and as I'm doing my shower, I'm like, it's okay. You've already played.

It's okay. You've already planned your day. So when I have the coffee and I sit down and it's. 30. 

Tami: I literally just bust through 

Lisa: my whole list now. And then at the end of the day, I make my list for the next day. I have a lot less waste time, a lot less. I'll figure that out in the morning, you have to the night before I am just really enjoying it.

Tami: I also think I was at the right 

Lisa: phase of my business to do it as well. And the rate pays in my life to do it. And, climatically, I think a walk in the afternoon is going to be better in the fall as far as, um, temperature wise, but I think I'll do something different and still have that morning routine time.

Tami: Yes. And I will just say, as a confirmed morning exerciser, some way I live in California, so I can literally walk 365 days a year. However, sometimes it's too hot here. So I will just, literally, I will walk laps in my house. I live in an 1100 square foot house. I open all the doors and I walk around like rain man, like where to go.

Like I'm walking a path in my house and I have a tiny trampoline. Do you know, what's exciting do to do I feel like a full on senior citizen, but I'm like, you know what, I am walking off, whatever I need to walk off. And like you, when I like, I go through all of my resistance and all of my avoidance while I'm on my walk, like all the stories I tell about, I don't have time or this was then I just get it out in my head, on my walk.

And when I get home and in my chair, I'm totally ready to work. 

Lisa: Yep. 

Tami: And I like my family more, I'm not gonna lie. It's a thing. And we, and so again, going back to the stool analogy, like I, every one of my house practices, self care, so like I'm on breakfast, my husband's walking out the door and he's like, I'll be back.

I'm doing a walk and we work together to make it happen. And since we're all at home, let's try to work together to make it happen. Okay. So last two questions before we get to the speed round, the quickfire questions. So what else do you want people to know about you and where can people find you online?

Lisa: What else do I want people to know about me? Um, so I'm not a perfectionist. I'm funny. Um, you'll feel better about yourself. If you listen to the organized three 65 podcasts, even if you don't get organized because you'll, your brain will start to absorb some of the organizing ideas. You don't, I am not a Pinterest organizer.

I'm a functional organizer and it really is a self development podcast. More than a here's the how to, of doing things. That's more in the courses. And how can people find me? I have the organized three 65 podcasts organized three 60 five.com is the website. And I'm organized three 65 everywhere on social media.

If you actually want me, it's the Instagram Insta stories. That's where I personally am. 

Tami: I, and I have to say I'm a huge proponent of the stories. Um, I would love. I have to say this, I run coaching groups. And, uh, one of the weeks somebody we sent, brought up getting organized and we were all sitting there.

There's 10 of us and we're all sitting there talking and somebody brought you up. And I was like, Oh my God, I love her stuff. And blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah. And so when your team reached out to say, Hey, would you like to interview Lisa for our new book? I was like, Hey, you guys, you know what happened?

So you have a little army of my people are like, shut up. You're going to talk to Lisa from organize three 65. What is even happening? And I'm like, we're doing the thing. We're going to find out about her self care and they are thrilled. 

Lisa: Yay. Yeah. 

Tami: Yeah. Okay. So quickfire, uh, one gen X or two, and next the, these, this was inspired by, uh, James Lipton's questions from inside the actor's studio.

So Lisa, are you ready for the quickfire challenge? Hope Okay. What is your Enneagram? 

Lisa: I'm a three. 

Tami: Do you wing four or wing two or do you know? 

Lisa: I'm not very detail oriented, so I don't know for sure. But I don't remember that part of it. 

Tami: Okay. But you're like, I just, uh, you just you're like I get shit done.

Okay. You're an extrovert. I will, I've 

Lisa: heard him. 

Tami: Do you know your Myers-Briggs? 

Lisa: Yeah, I am an E N T J 

Tami: E N T J. Okay. I'm an inf J I knew you were an E and a J I could figure that out. My one 

Lisa: friend is like, you're the most ENT, J E N TJ. There is. Cause I really like talking about different political issues and I'm like, but we need the solution.

She's like, Lisa, we haven't even defined the problem yet. We're over here in defining the problem. I'm like, let me know when we need the solution. I already have ideas. 

Tami: Okay. So is strategic one of your strengths on the strengths 

Lisa: finder? 

Tami: Yes. People are like, how do you 

Lisa: do that? Dziedzic learner her 

Tami: strategic empathy and activator.

I'm like, just 

Lisa: pick, I don't remember the other ones, but definitely strategic. Definitely learner can't remember what the other options are. 

Tami: I don't know. I'll just tell you that we have a lot in common. Okay. So Gretchen Rubin 

Lisa: for tensioner. 

Tami: Hey Jen exer. So we do right. We're like, you're not the boss of me, dude.

Yes, me convince me. Okay. Your love language. 

Lisa: I'm words of affirmation. 

Tami: Me too, but what is your secondary and what is your spouses? Cause 

Lisa: I like my spouses is quality time. Okay. And my secondary 

Tami: would 

Lisa: probably be gifts and I'm looking at my strengths finder right now. Cause we have our whole team doing this.

Oh that's. So though I am achiever learner significance, competition and focus. 

Tami: So good. 

Lisa: Does it say what? My secondary, Oh, my secondary is gifts. Yeah. I'm words of affirmation, secondary as gifts. 

Tami: Okay. What's the most significant gift anyone's ever given you? 

Lisa: Um, okay. So it's something I bought myself.

Tami: Terrific. I love when people, um, hi, that's good self care. You're like, you don't get mad. My knee. What is it? 

Lisa: Um, so it's this ring. And it is a Sapphire custom-made ring by Greg's uncle is a jeweler. So he actually, it's a unique, one of a kind ring. Uh, my necklace isn't I bought this while I was waiting for the ring to be done by the same jeweler.

Um, my dad always bought my mom jewelry for everything, and my husband does not do that. And I love bubbles. Um, in my family, there's a lot of jewelry. My great grandfather was a purser on a ship. So we have all this amazing jewelry that's been handed down. And when we achieved a significant goal in the business, I ordered the ring.

To commemorate. 

Tami: Why are you telling me all these things that I'm getting chills? So one of the things that I work with my clients on is, through smart goals, but I have made it less corporate and more about self care. And the last one is treat yourself like, how are you going to celebrate? And people struggle.

Sounds like I really need to connect with the gift people in the world to help me. Help others who don't have that gift girl. I was in here this morning and I'm like, I'm going to buy a waterproof Bluetooth speaker for my shower to celebrate my last launch. Yes. And I'm going to end the color I want because I can, 

Lisa: Green was expensive. I think it was $1,400. And the reason I say that is because I spent $1,400 on my credit card every month. On stuff that I won't have a year from now, but I will have this ring for the rest of my life. And I will remember that. And then when I get to, I wear these fake little diamond hoop things and it's on my vision board.

When I achieve this next significant thing, I will have real diamond earrings. So I love jewelry. It's going to last forever. I don't wear fake jewelry. I wear a real jewelry. And so each of my things that I buy are significant and some yeah. Way and they're expensive, but they're not outrageous. 

Tami: But also one of the things I'm hearing you say and correct me if I wrong is this is important to me.

So I'm making it happen. I'm celebrating my accomplishments in a way that's really the scratch that itch of that happening. So my secondary, uh, love language is. Um, acts of service. I changed all the names. It's w it's gold stars, uh, getting a, uh, in the seats. You know what I mean? It's like I ran in, so I was trying to think of the real name.

I like it service. So like, for me, if you want, if 

Lisa: people want a housecleaning house cleaning the car, getting 

Tami: the car wash, getting a detail, the whole shebang, Somebody's making you like the most delicious meal. Oh my God, all of that. So that's where I'm like, Ooh, what are the services? When we can start interacting with people again?

What shall I do? Oh, I get monthly massages. I scheduled them again. I started 

Lisa: that. I started that this year. Oh, it's heavenly. 

Tami: Okay. I get a massage every last Tuesday of every month, except during a pandemic. And I've done it for a decade and people are like, but how do you know you're going to need a massage?

I'm like, Dude. I always need a massage. Yeah. Yeah. So I schedule my stuff out, like by the year haircuts eyebrows, 

Lisa: so organized Tammy 

Tami: it's because I hate making decisions more than 

Lisa: once. 

Tami: I'm like, I don't want to waste my decision making on whether or not I should get a bang trim. I know my hair grows.

I know how long it takes. I mean, I am cutting my own hair at this point. However, I also have myself on a schedule where I'm like, Oh, need a little bang trim. Okay. Okay. Now 

Lisa: here's where Ohio can shine because, uh, I'm getting my nails done and my hair done. And I'm still getting my massages in California.

You're still shut down. Sorry. But Ohio has so few benefits. I just have to no out of my house. No, for real. You 

Tami: also had the governor who straight out of the gate. Our governor did too, but we also have 40 mill, young people. Yeah. People and some of them 

Lisa: shut it down. 

Tami: Are entitled poops who are not following the rules.

Lisa: That's in Ohio 

Tami: too, 

Lisa: unless we 

Tami: have those in place. And that really bothers me. But Lisa, you're a prolific reader. I love watching you on good reads. I'm like, let me see all of the things that Lisa's reading. So this is going to be, I know a challenge for you. Feel free to add more than one, but what was your favorite last book that you read?

Lisa: Right now I am listening to Jack Canfield's success principles. I'm loving that. And I have bought the workbook to go with it. So I'm going to listen to it all the way through, and then I'm going to listen to it and do the workbook one chapter a week. Um, I am a learner like I'm a learner. I'm a questioner.

I always want to know more. no more. I love 

Tami: it. I love it. Okay. What is your favorite book? Of all time. 

Lisa: So favorite book of all time is generations by Neil, uh, Neil Strauss and William Howard, or it's William Howe and Neil stress. Those are the words, I don't know what the order is. It's a thick book.

It is hard to find it is not on audible. Um, and it is all about how there are. Four different primary generation types and they repeat over and over again every 80 years. So each is a 20 year span and that they have similar care. So like it's the best questioner. So the baby boomer generation is the same as the babies that are being born now.

So the kids that are zero to 20 are the same archetype as the 80 to 100 year olds right now. And it's just fascinating to me that we keep repeating the same cycles over and over again, and these different archetypes of generations. 

Tami: But I love it because, so I recently read a Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people.

And it was published in like the thirties and. Sure. There are a few like old fashioned turns of phrases and all that, but what it did, what it really illuminated is humans are humans are humans and humans act to this way. It's like, In a way, you're like, why don't we, why don't we pay closer attention so we can learn this stuff, but here we are.

Lisa: and also if you take that in any business you're in or whatever, your unique gifting and calling is that you're going to go into, you are going to experience all generations. Baby boomers, look at the world differently than gen X, then millennials than gen Z. And those are the four different generations.

And when you were talking about organizing your stuff, millennials, baby boomers are maximalists. Gen millennials are minimalists, gen X are nobody cares. And there's 

Tami: like 19 of us anyway. 

Lisa: So whatever, we'll just skip over them, but we are in between. And so not everybody looks at their stuff the exact same way.

That's why there is no one right answer because we all experiencing. Things differently because baby boomers had to work so hard to earn that money. And things were really hard to get in the eighties. I mean, my parents didn't do it, but some parents stood in line for their kids to get a cabbage patch doll.

And then you got the cabbage patch doll 

Tami: or the garbage pail kids 

Lisa: or any of those things that was so hard. The beanie babies that you could get from the McDonald's drive through 

Tami: any of it. But 

Lisa: yes, and getting everything in the bag. 

Tami: But yes. 

Lisa: So now, like, it's like, we can get it on Amazon. Like before this interview, I ordered something that'll be here probably before I'm off of this interview.

So of course we're like, we don't need to hold onto stuff because it's so easy to get it now. Um, so they're, the ebbs and flows are generational. 

Tami: I know. And it's. so fascinating. And so we, in my life coaching certification program, I actually went through UC Davis, which is, one of the major universities here in California and we had a generation's talk.

And I will tell you that. Just so we're clear, we all sat in our own generations and we could pick where we sat, but like all the gen X kids were at one table and all the boomers were at another because we annoyed the shit out of each other with how we move through the world. And I was like, yes, I'm totally not talking to you guys.

I'm talking to millennials and I'm talking to gen X people, anybody else who's listening? And you like it. Cool. We must be an outlier for your people. But I was like, that's, there's reasons that. What we say and how we say it resonates with people because we have those through lines of our generation. And I'm going to get that book now.

So wait generations by last 

Lisa: week, Neil Strauss and William Howe or it's Neil Howe and William Strauss. 

Tami: Okay. I will follow 

Lisa: and Strauss. 

Tami: Oh. And by the way, I love when people tell me that about stuff that I've never heard of. Cause I'm like, Oh, here we go. Okay. What's your favorite personal development book?

Lisa: Pay for personal development book? Um, I like Brendon Burchard's book. I just read it. I think it's a great book with yellow letters on it. Something habits that one's really good. There was another one, You just read, um,

And I was like the whole entire book. I was like, Oh my gosh, that book is just amazing. I'll have to find it and get back to you. I'm not as good as like, um, so I've read the Bible five times. I could tell you everything that's in the Bible, but I can't tell you the chapter. And first I'm not good at that.

Tami: No, I hear you. And you're also like, if I can look it up, why am I going to keep it in my brain 

Lisa: at night 

Tami: now I hear you. And so I also, I do follow you on, um, good reads. So I know that you 

Lisa: do a lot of they're in 

Tami: there. you also do a lot of reading around productivity. And systems is my actual word of the year, this year, because I have come up against where I'm like, Oh, You, I find that I have to tune up my systems and then when you're in business, you're like, I didn't even know I needed a system for that thing.

Apparently I need a system for people 

Lisa: for that too. Yeah. So like to tune up my people. Oh, you like a system have, if you run that, 

Tami: uh, hello, uh, 

Lisa: the house million million dollar habits by Brian Tracy. Amazing book million dollar habits by Brian, Tracy. 

Tami: I'm writing this on my desk because, um, I like to keep notes actually on my desk, because then I looked down, I'm like, why are there scribbles all over my desk?

And it reminds me, and then I cleaned them off as it goes. Okay. You already said that your favorite social media is Instagram stories. 

Lisa: Yes. 

Tami: Because you have people that help you with all of your stuff, 

Lisa: but that is where you are. 

Tami: What is it that you love about stories? And are you going to try reels?

Lisa: Okay. um, I'm not, I just saw the reels yesterday. Of course. I think they just came out yesterday. 

Tami: They did, and I have not, I started to try it and I was like, 

Lisa: okay, this is too much. I don't even do the filters to people. Like, I'm just like, I'm just practical. You get what you get. I don't really try to.

Sugar-coated, what I like 

Tami: Insta stories is because it's just 

Lisa: my own self curated reality TV show was literally in my bath. Now this is so fun. I dry my bath. And then I prop up my phone on and I start with story number one, and they'll just cascade right through. And like for 15 minutes, I get to watch all these people and see what my friends that don't even know who I am are doing throughout their day.

I just find it so fascinating. And the other thing I love to do on Instastories is follow couples. So I follow Sarah Blakely of Spanx, but I also follow Jesse Itzler, which is her husband who has his own business as well. And I love watching them independently and I love watching them talk to each other on stories.

I just find it so fascinating. 

Tami: It's funny as I do that too, I follow Jasmine star and her husband. And is that you're seeing what you're seeing the same event through different lenses. It's I think it's the industry. Interesting. And I also love. Um, that people have their guard down more and I've been able to connect with like big people.

I just air quoted big people. people who have a lot of followers, I'm going to tell you can become everyone's best friend and Instagram 

Lisa: stories, Ken. And I even I'll be like, Oh, should I have shared that? I'm like, ah, it's gone in 24 hours. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. 

Tami: Like if you want to see.

Some really bad hair. you'll see some bad hair and Insta stories. Okay. Show, I know I read it like that, but I like to judge this one up with past present or future, meaning that you are like, Oh my God, I have this idea for this TV show and I want to hear your audience about it. Oh, 

Lisa: okay. So do 

Tami: TV, 

Lisa: Madam secretary, 110%.

I love that show with . 

Tami: Yes. I love it. 

Lisa: Do you want to know why? I love it? I love it because she is powerful yet feminine. She is quiet. She's not like, yeah, I've got to do this. Like, she's just like, we'll bomb you then. And she goes, and you see her and her husband in her place. She's like, Oh, should I not have taken the job as secretary of state?

She like, is this going to ruin our love life? 

Tami: And I'm just like, yes, like that is what 

Lisa: women are struggling with. Like, Oh, should I not own this company, Greg? Because and that's how I feel. And yet she just looks amazingly great yet. She's a good mom and she's missing big events. Cause she's like, Solving world peace yet she's on the phone with them and I'm like, 

Tami: you 

Lisa: can't, this is what a modern day woman.

It looks like to me. I know it's fake, but anyway, I really love that show, 

Tami: but if we can see it, we can be it. yeah, I don't want to be secretary of state, but I do not to be, I 

Lisa: want to have a connector for a woman 

Tami: and a powerful one. 

Lisa: Yes. Yes, a powerful feminine woman is what I want to be. And then my future TV show a picture like super nanny for your paper.

So like a wrapped RV that says the paper solution and I go into people's houses and I helping get their paper in order. 

Tami: Do we have any TV? I know. I was like, I'm all in. 

Lisa: Yes. Yes. And I want to try, I mean, I just want to travel. I'm dying to travel. Even before the pandemic. Totally. But I'm 

Tami: also like, but if you're driving an RV around the country doing this, 

Lisa: you can totally do it.

Tami: Have you, but have you started watching, um, it's called hot mess on 

Lisa: HGTV? No, her Cassandra. 

Tami: Yes, of course. You know her, I was flipping through the channels that I saw. I was like the Clutterbuck lady from YouTube. She's 

Lisa: great. She's so great. Yeah. HGTV is doing that with her, 

Tami: Okay. 

Lisa: So then I also go, do I want to do that or do I want to just self produce it?

I mean, obviously you could do Netflix, you could do Amazon prime or you could just become independent and put it on Roku, Or you 

Tami: could do it on YouTube and get sponsors. Oh, you could do it on Patrion 

Lisa: and people can. 

Tami: Okay. We're just having, we're having like ideas popping 

Lisa: out of our questioners together.

I don't know what to tell you. This is going to happen. 

Tami: I'm like it totally can happen. Did you ever, okay. Do you watch the office? 

Lisa: Yes, I have. I don't watch it religiously. 

Tami: Okay. What was a long way of saying Jenna Fisher? Pam on the office wrote a book called the actors way, the 

Lisa: actors, 

Tami: and, um, she basically writes.

A book on how to be an actor. And one of the things she says is don't wait around for other people to choose you. Do your work every day, right? Every day, produce every day and put your shit out because we have the tools, I just saved you from having to read a really good book.

And you should totally do this show because it's needed. 

Lisa: Yeah, it's just it's I know it's just a timing thing. I know it's going to happen. I just don't know when or how, but I know it will happen. 

Tami: I just had this flash of a vision that I'll share with you, your children. Okay. I can't believe I said it like that, but the vision I had is that your children are going to help produce the show.

Lisa: I believe it. 

Tami: Okay. 

Lisa: Like, they'll get like the technical bat. 

Tami: They'll do like the. Behind the scenes stuff. 

Lisa: My son just finished a two year degree in audio production and engineering.

Okay. I 

Tami: literally didn't know that, but why did I get that hit 

Lisa: of like, they don't know, but I love it and I'm writing it down. 

Tami: Okay. And when you start the show, you can come back and we can do this again. It can be like, Oh my God, this totally doing that. And 

Lisa: we don't have, I just come to California. 

Tami: Yes.

I've been to California. 

Lisa: Yes. My parents used to have a place in Palm Springs. It was heavenly. Okay. No 

Tami: paradise. I've anyway, it's funny because that's in Southern California, I'm a Northern California native and I went to Palm Springs for the first time, three years ago for alt summit. And when we get to, and when the world gets back together, Hey, I'm re launching my 50th birthday by renting a house in Palm Springs with my friends, and I'm going to alt summit and it's lovely there.

I will never go, 

Lisa: but it's still lovely there. Oh, my 

Tami: God. Your folks had a place in Palm Springs. that's fancy. 

Lisa: Yeah, they were fancy before they blew it all in their divorce. 

Tami: That was a very gen X thing for you to say.

Now I have to ask, how old were you when you 

Lisa: folks? 35, 35. 

Tami: You were, I'm sorry. You were 35. When your parents got divorced. 

Lisa: Yes. If you'd been in California, 

Tami: you'd have been 10. 

Lisa: It takes a while to do it in Ohio. 

Tami: Exactly. Also they had a lot at stake, but still okay. I am so excited about your future TV show. I can hardly stand it, 

Lisa: but I get Tammy.

Tami: This is the question that I always watched inside the actor's studio for. I want to know what every celebrities. Favorite swear word is so Lisa Woodruff, what is your favorite swear word? 

Lisa: Shit.

Tami: Okay. 

Lisa: And so I have a funny story about that. 

Tami: We all just giggled. Okay. So tell me your funny story about yourself. 

Lisa: So my mom would say that swear word, and she would say it wasn't a swear word, but we weren't allowed to say it. We had to say rats. Okay. 

Tami: Rats reminds me of school, house rock. So I love it. I like your mom is just like, I'm laying down the law and this is how this works at our house.

I say this, and you say that And you all went right.

I want to bring back rats. Yeah. 

Lisa: it's really a funny word, especially the way she would say she'd go, Oh,

Tami: your mom sounds like a hoot. 

Lisa: Oh my goodness gracious. She is. 

Tami: Oh my God. Lisa, I have so enjoyed having this chat. I CA I'm producing. I'm not a producer, but I wish I was. 

Lisa: And pretend 

Tami: we can totally pretend if you need any buddy, too. Um, run ideas around. I'm an idea machine, especially for other people. So we could get together on the offlines to talk about, uh, episode ideas and all that stuff for your new show that you're going to produce.


Lisa: like a plan. I'll let the team know. This is how they find out everything you said. What, 

Tami: where, and you're like, I'm starting a TV show. It's going to be great. We got to get an RV 

Lisa: for the fans. So hard to find right now cause of the pandemic. I know, 

Tami: but do you know how available they're going to be after the pandemic?


Lisa: that right? I'll take a used one. Yeah, 

Tami: exactly. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good luck on making the paper solution of reality TV show as well as a book and everyone go find [email protected] Find her on all the social channels and buy this book so you can create some papers solutions in your life.

And until next week, remember you matter too.


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