EP 71: Finding Our Own Leadership with Naomi Hattaway


Tami: Good morning. Naomi: Good morning. Tami: Oh, glad that you're here. So for my friends who have not yet had the pleasure of meeting you yet, Naomi, can you tell us who are you and what do you do in the world? Naomi: That's such a good question. There was that thing that went around a while ago. And I think it was a, from a poem where it was I am of, or I am from, did you ever see that where people, and I have always loved that because I think that part of who we are is such a patchwork of where we came from. I am. In my mid forties, I am post-menopausal. I'm the mom of three. they are twenty-five 17 and 14. I've been married to my husband for going on 18 years and I am a problem solver. I'm an avid book reader. I used to be a wonderful gardener, turned. Subpar in Gardner recently. and the work that I do in the world, intersects between being a bridge for gaps that I see and. Also a Firestarter to bring others in the community along to carry on the work. I used to, when I was younger in my career, always looked at it as a bad thing that I would jump into a project, get something started, and then I would leave it. and then recently I've been able to reframe that as, being a Firestarter that I bring along others to carry on the work, in the way that the community needs it in the future. So. That's a short answer. Tami: I absolutely love the idea of reframing how you talk about yourself. Cause I used to talk about myself as being like a professional procrastinator or somebody who didn't finish. Yeah. And I've had to reframe that my procrastination isn't that I'm waiting until the last minute, because I'm lazy or useless it's because I am sleeping it, dreaming it, bathing with it. I am chewing it up. I'm digesting it. I'm coming around to it. And by the time I opened my mouth or put my fingers to my keyboard, what I produce is pretty much a first and final draft Naomi: of the most things. I love it. Tami: but boy was that really hard to come to terms with. And also I'm not a huge finisher, so you don't want deal. I hire part of my family success team as a finisher work with a professional organizer. She's the one that takes the stuff to the thrift shop. Or my husband does, I just want to play to our own strengths. So tell me. How does this play out in your professional life? This being a Firestarter and a, I see a problem and I want to help fix that. Naomi: I think so. In the last five years I've done primarily nonprofit work. before that I was a full-time volunteer when we lived overseas, because I couldn't work because of work visa situations. And then I also run and own my own real estate company. So I think in all those instances, I just started to realize. The beauty of true collaboration and not just collaboration as a buzzword, but really finding folks that have different skillsets, different strengths, even when they're uncomfortable for me. because we really do go farther together. And so with my non-profit work, I've learned to be very clear with my future bosses or future board of directors in saying these are the things that you'll want to find someone else to do similar to what you were talking about, Tammy, Here are the things that I am not great at. And so if you ask me to put those on my job duties list, you will be disappointed. and being able to clearly state that at the beginning has been enabled me to sit very firmly in the things I'm great at. And to your point about finishing, making sure that there's someone on the team or at a Beck and call to be able to have them come in. and the other thing too, about not being a finisher for me, I have had to learn to sit on my hands. I've always been a hand raiser. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. And someone told me very wise suggestion that the more I sit on my hands, the more it enables someone else to fill that space by raising their hand. And I think about that a lot too. if I am silent just a little bit longer, someone else will volunteer. Or if I don't jump in. And it's not that I'm trying to pass the buck it's that someone else has a better skillset to finish or to pull things together or to professionalize a project than I do. I think it's also a part of how I work in that, I guess seeing a gap sometimes can be looked at as complaining or a negative Nelly or, Squeaky wheel. But I think part of what I bring to the table is also a diverse set of options for solving the problem so that it's not just, Hey, here's this big hole in the road that we're coming up to. It's, we could go around it, we could build a bridge over it. We could turn around and go a different way. and I think that's something that I've learned how to hone is being able to present options to people. So then as a collective, then we decide what's best for the group. Tami: Okay. I have so many things to say about this one is by chance. This is a question I haven't already presented to you. Have you taken the strengths finder? I have. Okay, because I feel like we might have some intersecting strengths because I'm like, girl, you are speaking my language on so many levels. Naomi: Well, I can tell you my top five, but I don't Tami: ever remember Naomi: the rest. Tami: Oh. And the rest are irrelevant to me as far as I, I only tell me your top five, Naomi: my top five are futuristic input. Yep. Arranger. Okay. Individualization and connectedness. Tami: Interesting. Mine are input. Hi. We like to read, learner and the strategic and activator. So I like to say mine are, I like to read, I like to collect things for you to read. I feel your feels. I have solutions to all of the problems and all of the world, and I won't take it personally. If you just choose one, like I'm not married to the answer. The answer. I am married to an answer. Like I don't see a problem without a solution. Naomi: Because there's multiples, right? Oh my God. Tami: One of the things I loved about being a teacher, as I was always like, okay, here's a multiplication problem. Solve it in any way that comes to your mind, but you have to be able to explain it. And this drove other teachers crazy. They're like, why don't you just teach them how I'm like, cause these fools teach me stuff all the time. And this one kid who had such an. Different way of looking at how to solve a problem. I was always like, okay, dude, stand up, teach us how you did that. Take us through your thinking. And I would poke at it and poke at it. I was like, okay, well, what if you try it with these numbers instead, he's it's still works. And it was such an interesting dialogue to have with a nine year old for them to be able to really get into their thinking. I was like, shut up. You totally taught me something. I'm not a hundred percent certain that it works in all situations. However, if I had never asked the question, I would not know that there was different ways to think about this. Naomi: Well, and think of that. Think of that exact same thing that you just said in a team environment with other adults. I am. If I let myself be surprised, if I let myself sit. In the space and the quiet or the stillness, or to your point, ask someone else to step up and show their work. Yeah, always I'm like, Oh, that's a better way to do it. plus it enables their own growth too, as a person, I think that we in work. so often that hierarchy stunts. Our own growth and to be able to do what you did with that. Nine-year-old and some of the ways I work with my team, I mean, talk about showing others that they have something to add to the solution also. It's great. Tami: Also you, I mean, if you, Hey guys, if you don't know this yet, if you ask people for their opinion on how to get things done, boy, let me tell you get a lot more, buy-in on actually getting the thing done. Cause I even wedded to how it's done. I'm just wedded to that. It's done. Naomi: Yep. I think I would agree with that and add that sometimes you don't even have to take any of the solutions that were offered to have the buy-in. So I think a lot of times people get scared of asking for. 20 people's opinions, but it's the process of the dialogue and yeah, the engagement. Tami: Well, it's the whole sheer fact of being asked. Naomi: Yes, Tami: absolutely. So it's funny. Cause I did a listener survey of the podcast last year and I asked people for feedback. And one of the feedbacks I got was I love hearing about all these entrepreneurs, blah, blah, blah. But what about people? I call them civilians. Civilians are people who work for other people who bring other people's dreams to life who work for the state or work for an association or do nonprofit work. so that brings me to you do a little bit of all of that, right? Naomi: Yeah. what crossed my mind as you were saying, the difference between that? I think that, I have, yes. What is Jean of the civilian work is that you are asked to be creative and bring your best self inside someone else's construct, where as an entrepreneur, you get to redefine your box every day. If you want to, And so the current work that I'm doing in nonprofit and part of the reason I decided to run for office was because I started getting frustrated with the policies that I was being asked to work underneath. In non-profit, especially in the housing space, in the youth and talent retention space, there was just a lot of moments where I was like, Oh, if only we could do this way, then I was like, Oh, but that's a policy issue. And then the more I sat with myself, the more I realized that my next iteration is the responsibility to rewrite some of that, through legislation. So. Yeah, I guess the answer to that question in a way that wasn't really what you were asking is that yes, I'm I work in all of those spaces, so Tami: this is probably a good time to let our audience know the reason that Naomi and I, our paths have crossed is because we are part of a community of women over 35. And one of us is running for public Naomi: office. Tami: It's not me. Can you tell us, can you tell our listeners what you're running for and how did you come to this? You're like, I see a problem and I think I'm the one that needs to help try to fix it. So what are you want for in Naomi: my past those problems that I've seen have been things like. Starting a school tour for kids that arrive in a foreign country over the summer and need to see their school grounds. And now my problem that I see fixed is like on a city level, but, I'm running for Omaha city council. Omaha is a Metro of about a million people in the middle of Nebraska. And the city council has seven seats and they are all up for reelection in 2021. And I would like my name to be on district sixes, representation. So, yeah. and you and I connected because you, offered to just spend some time talking through some early strategy, and I saw appreciate it, and I'm so glad we're connected Tami: you and I have chills every time a woman says. I think I'm going to run for office. I mean, I kind of feel a little bit like Jimmy Stewart Naomi: and it's Tami: a wonderful life. Every time the bell rings, it's not an angel, get their wings. It's a woman, signs up to run for office. And I am the lucky recipient of hearing that bell, I think more often now than ever. And people whisper to me. I think it's part of my job as a coach. People love telling me their secrets and one of the secrets that. More and more women are saying as I think I'm going to run for office. Naomi: Yeah. Which is amazing. Tami: yeah, it is. Naomi: I think interesting. It gives me chills. I think that we are on a press pissed. Praecipe why can't I ever say the right word precipice of praecipe as a legal document. Precipice is the edge of the cliff. I think we're on the edge of also it being a little bit more. Transparent to know what it's like to run for office. I think that I have gathered so much information from other women who have run and it's kind of like childbirth, it's hard and there's some pain and it's amazing. And then yet when you talk to people who've been through it, they're like, Oh yeah, you should do it. And then period. End of sentence. And then you find yourself in the middle of it and you're like, Holy hell, this is something, Tami: I never, I did not become a mother through a birth, but I imagine it's like being in labor in your life. I was just kidding. I don't know if I want to do this and they're like too late. You're already. Yep. Naomi: Well, it's the same as, I mean, you can assign it physical pain to the process of childbirth. but it's anything, it's the act of parenting. It's the act of, showing up for your community. It's deciding to protest anything that takes you through a wild range of emotions in a short amount of time. I think you can liken to running for office, except that you bared your entire soul to a lot of people who you don't know. I decided to run for office, for a couple of reasons. One, because I know in my heart and with all every piece of intuition that I have that 2021 for our city for Omaha needs leadership that is accessible, that is connected and engaged with the actual humans that our elected officials are supposed to serve. And going back to that collaboration and that commitment to. Community excellence. we don't have that in our city council right now. And I know that I can bring that to them. if you look at it on a surface level, being black and white, biracial, I checked the box for a physical representation of diversity that we also need on our city council, but I'm also, I also identify as a disabled person, due to a chronic illness and an accident that I had, that needs to be represented on the city council. and. This is the thing that excites me the most. I know how to speak the language of multiple folks, not actual languages, but the way that we speak and the way that we get things done and the way that we connect with each other. And that's also sorely missing. So there's not a whole lot wrong with the dude that's currently in office. and so I'm excited about that actually, to just run a race of who is the better leader, Instead of it becoming a nasty thing. So that was a lot of words, Tammy, Tami: but, and they're, but they're such good words. And here's the thing I want to, I feel like part of my mission in life is to demystify people taking. Risks and specifically people, demystifying, people being involved civically. what's been interesting over the last four years. I mean, I have a degree in political science. I worked in politics for a decade. I did everything from lobbying to fundraising, to grassroots, organizing to constituent services and the capital. Like I did a little bit of everything looking for my slot in that world. I did not find it, but I feel like it, that my slot in the political world is being created for me because people are there. I think of their politics, curious, but they're afraid of it. And I'm like, Oh, I can totally help you demystify things. And when I am in the teacher, demystifier mentor, let me hold your hand and give you some tips. everyone shines. Yeah. And it's super duper exciting for all of us. Naomi: It's also what I think that I've watched you do through your social media, through your podcast and through, like you mentioned, with the, community of women over 35. Is redefine what civic engagement looks like. It doesn't have to be running for office. It can be writing postcards. It can be learning by watching a script of how to call your representative to say, I don't think I agree with this, or would you consider this it for some people it's protesting, for some people it's voting, so I think that's politics and civic engagement feels scary until you and you do a great job of it. Break it down. So it's quite sizable for people where it can meet them, where they're at. so I, I appreciate that from you. Tami: Thank you. That is definitely what I'm trying to do. And it feels like exciting work in it because it's a way, that makes it accessible for people who feel like, Oh, that's for old, that's for them over there because they know more. And I'm like, Oh no, your mom. plenty. Oh no, you're a teacher. I'm gonna tell you what, way enough, like also we don't have to be experts in everything too. Shouldn't be Naomi: actually Tami: exactly to be, to affect change. Like we are able to come together. Naomi: Well, and I think that's something that I also, I would add to the why I'm a better candidate than our current representative. I hear so many times, and sometimes it's typically a male dominated response. like everyone, I did not know everything and we need leadership. That's willing to say, I do not know the answer to that question. And then either open the door to say, can someone else help me understand? Or even just say, I mean, this would be amazing. Give me a couple of days and I'll come back to it. Tami: because feel like that's a parenting one Oh one lesson, Naomi: right. Well, Tami: I mean parenting teaching, I mean, kids, when I was a teacher, kids would come up to me and they'd say, I want to do, yeah. They would say, Oh, do you know XYZ about blah, blah, blah, dinosaur? And I was like, you know what? This has never come up in my life. And this is, I realized what I'm going to say might sound rude to grown up ears, but hang with me. I would say I've never cared about that. So I didn't take the time to look it up. But Naomi: I'm saying it Tami: right, but you who has the natural curiosity about that, you might become our classroom expert in that thing. And they're like what I'm like. Yeah. Why don't you become the classwork classroom expert in that thing that maybe only you are interested in. And, then let us know how it goes, because also through you sharing your expertise on that thing, I might become excited and maybe I will want to learn about the thing, but that hasn't struck my fancy yet. So please go forth and become the expert. And they were like, you're weird. Okay. I'm like their libraries over there. I don't care about trains or dinosaurs, but bless your little heart, the blush a little hearts there. Naomi: So I think that's fantastic. One of the, state senators, when I was doing gun violence prevention work said to me, cause I was like really hard on him for not understanding the knowledge that I knew. And he's I can't know. It all literally physically cannot. So I would love, and he did what you just said. I would love for you to bring me back a three page no more, please. Just three pages on the things that most, you know, that where we could have the most impact. And that was when I first started realizing, we hold our leaders to a really unattainable pillar of knowing the right thing to say immediately rapid response and knowing everything and it's not tenable. and so I want to, through my campaign starts to normalize letting a leader, ask questions back. Tami: Absolutely. Well, the other thing that has come up is that people feel like that they can't have an opinion on something. Unless they are an expert, but here's the thing. I just want to take this veil down. People who run for office and people who win, they are human beings and I've seen, cause I've been on both sides of the proverbial table. I've been a lobbyist where I go and I educate legislators about stuff. Or their staff. And a lot of times they're like shut up. I didn't know that. And you're like, I know, right? And they're like, Oh, my person who I work for will be very interested in that. And they usually say, do you know anyone who this is directly affecting? And then you're like, I could parade 15 families that this is going to harm, or this is good. I can parade 15 families that this is going to help. So the thing that changes the minds of people who are in office. Is education. Naomi: Yeah. Tami: and education coming from real people. Oh, my, it is the most effective, Naomi: well that too. That's another example of a civic engagement moment. Being the advocate to help connect those 20 families with the elected official is a beautiful form of civic engagement. so I think that's the other piece for people that are listening, who maybe don't want to run for office, or don't want to go testify at a city council meeting. If you know of something that's about to go down in your community and, have people that will be adversely or positively impacted, You can just be the convener of those voices in those stories. Tami: Yes. And you can write letters. I am a public, I'm a public comment or like nobody's business. I don't want to talk in a microphone. The irony of me is saying that whilst I'm on a microphone, right. The second, however, I am in my house and no one is looking at me. but I love leaving public comment because those things that get counted, so, okay. So can you speak a little bit about. cause I'm just going to say it. I know there has to be a doubt of no way here. I'm going to tell you guys I'm real. Well-versed in the subject of imposter syndrome. I like to wear my imposter syndrome Cape, like. How do you, how did you, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably suffer from it because most people do, but, so how did you tango with that notion of, I don't know enough in order to make this step. Naomi: So, it's timely for you to ask that question. I just had a piece that I wrote published in darling magazine, about this very thing. And when I started, so I'll back up just a little bit. I broke my leg in an accident in December, and so I've been, quarantining before the quarantine and started to write my memoir. Mostly for myself. but I started to realize that the through line of my imposter syndrome was not knowing enough. I was homeschooled as a child before it was legal to do so in the state of Nebraska, the board of education would not award me a diploma. So I got my GED when I was 30 and pregnant in a room full of incarcerated folks, all handcuffed to their tables. And I think that's part of that input with my strengths. I am, I'm so hungry for knowledge, and it's only been recently that I started using my own quotes and my own statements as valid things to share instead of other people's words. And so my imposter syndrome does look like not knowing enough, what I've been battling with and will probably continue battling with is removing it as a day-to-day piece of my life. And I visually put it in a corner. I put a chair literally in the corner of my office so that my fear and my imposter syndrome can just sit there. I. Want to be able to keep my eye on it, look at it, acknowledge that it's there. another candidate told me recently that she reminds herself I belong here and there's no better time for me to be than right here and right now. And that has also resonated with me. imposter syndrome is a real thing and it can be debilitating. But so far what's worked is that visualization of yeah, I see you over there in the corner where it's not going to impact my work. Tami: I love that. So many people feel like they have to beat back their fear with a stick. And I'm like, well, that does make your fear. Want to fight you Naomi: a lot of energy though. Tami: That's a lot energy. Exactly. And so one of my, practices. That I learned from one of my great teachers, Rosie Molinari if Naomi: you don't know yet, Tami: Rosie, she is an excellent teacher about, body positivity and just basically awesome living. She has a book called beautiful. You love it. but anyway, Or one of her things is one of the exercises in her book. Beautiful. You is to name your critic. And so my inner critic's name is blanche. Oh, she has a filthy mouth and that girl she wants to keep me so safe. She doesn't want me to do things like cross the street or speak up at about anything. And so I kind of have to hug her like, Like of mouse and men style. Like I'm gonna squeeze you and love you and hold ya. And it's the 22nd hug. If I hug her for 20 seconds, she'll relax a little bit and maybe listen, right. It's it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. she's constantly screaming, but what's the worst thing that can happen. And I'm like, I now plant thanks for always reminding me to look for the terrible things. Thank you. I think I, I've never had a day in my life where I didn't think the absolute worst. Right. So in the last few years, since I have stopped trying to fight her, I have been asking her in counter to that. And that is, yeah, but what's the best thing. And so when I think of you running for office, like some people would say, Oh, the worst thing that could happen is that you lose. And I'm like, Oh, friends, Oh my God, you are so shortsighted. So not the worst thing. However, the best thing that could happen is that you could actually help the people in your community. Right. You could do that. That would be the best part. Right? Well, there's that, Naomi: there's actually a beautiful thread of things that can all be woven together just in the act of running that can, hold up the mirror to our elected officials in a sense of what is your responsibility? And are you. Measuring up to what you said you would do, reminding others that it's possible. I got a message last night from a gal who wants to run for something and she just gave me some encouragement and I have never been so empowered and encouraged. By watching the way that you're running for office. And I think that's what it's about too, for my daughter and for my friends, and for those in my community. that's what, that's the best thing that could happen. Tami: Absolutely. So I do have a question. Did you, or did you go through a, I'm a first-time candidate, I'm a female candidate training. Naomi: okay. So we have, there's a couple of things I would recommend, Tanya Geisler, is a fabulous coach. And I have to just give her a little bit of a shout out. She has done some work with me around, the imposter complex and establishing, what it is that I'm here to do. So I she's amazing. She's got. Some stuff all over, Facebook and Instagram and on some free things. there's also a local group of women called women who run Nebraska and they have an incredible, set of support that they offer women in Nebraska. And then also the run for something, I'm too old to be a candidate for the run for something group, but they also have Tami: stellar, Naomi: Tools and trips, tips, and webinars and workshops and such. But I will say that it got a little bit to that, like input learner overload, where I was like, wait, this is I okay. I've absorbed too much. Now I just need to step out in faith and know who my inner circle. You're one of them. And I've got some people here locally where I can just throw things off of and throw spaghetti on the wall. So, yes, I guess as a first time candidate, I would say it is important. To do some workshops in some learning. And it's also really important to trust yourself and figure out who you're, who's gone on the ride with you. Tami: Absolutely. And also know that, being nervous about something feels like fear feels like anxiety, but just to reminder your body feels exactly the same way when you're excited about something. Yeah. If I tell that myself a lot at 4:00 AM excited about a project. I'm like, why can I not sleep? And I'm like, Oh, my body is like, Hey. So anyway, we were thinking about this great thing also, when I'm super anxious about thing, my body likes to wake me up at four o'clock in the morning to worry about things. So, but it feels exactly the same. So you can also reframe the idea of I'm scared to death to do this. And, or it could be, Oh my God, this is the most exciting thing ever, Naomi: I think. Yes. And I also thinking, as you were talking, one of the things that has helped me is identifying two or three really bad-ass. Female candidates, not necessarily elected because I think there's, bad-ass Surrey in the folks that run and don't win, to just follow, become so obsessed that you are on their mailing list. You're following their socials. what have you, cause there's something to be said about gleaning wisdom and advice and courage by just kind of sidling up next to folks. And that's been helpful for me too, is identifying some key folks that I'm like, I want to do it like them. that's something I would suggest also. Tami: I love that. So Naomi, Naomi: Tammy, Tami: I have a question and because by podcast is all about self care. you ha you wear a lot of hats. You have the mom hat, you have the non-profit hat. You have the entrepreneur hat, you have the I'm a candidate hat, How does self care affect your work in all these arenas? Naomi: So I will say as maybe a necessary caveat or maybe it's unnecessary. I don't know. My children are of the age where they are super self-sufficient. So I will answer this question as a mom of a 14, 17 and 25 year old. I'm able to carve out time in my morning and carve out time in my evening that is not filled with active parenting. So I will say that I feel extremely thrilled about that piece of my self care. I go upstairs, which is where my bedroom is, at eight o'clock every night. I do my part to shut down the house, the rest of it's on the kids, their responsibility. And then I'll just, I mean, it sounds silly, but I have a heating pad. I got a really amazing heating pad. I. Usually have a pot of tea. and I sit in silence an awful lot these days. I love music, but unless I can be intentional about the purpose of it, I prefer silence. and so for me, silence is self-care, I also do a lot of writing. sometimes it is gibberish. Sometimes it makes zero sense and sometimes it's very intentional. and so I do a lot of my writing at night.   and then little things like I sleep with my window open as much as I can because I sleep better that way. I. Make sure that I've got my space in the morning set up so that I don't have to, again, that energy spending business, I've pared down my closet so that I wear often the same thing several days in a row. It's easier during quarantine of course, but, just removing some of the things that society or our past tells us has to be part of our routine has been an incredible piece of self-care for me. so simplifying, I guess, I'm Tami: over here, shaking my head. Like I'm a bobblehead. Yes. I mean, for real on the, what shall I wear? I'm like, well, I have 10 dresses, so it's going to be one of those things like which lipstick made aware. Well, I have two. So go ahead and pick one. Well, and Naomi: I've gotten to be like, I love earrings are my thing. And I realized, I was like, Oh, I could wear the same dress every day. I can spritz it with refresher and throw it in the dryer. I'm not like out sweating. That's not part of my job so I can wear it every day and just throw in different earrings, feel, put together, feel camera ready and feel, capable to do my job. and be really simple about it. no one cares. I also haven't worn a bra since December 28th, so I guess that's good for something too. Yeah, that's funny. Self-care Tami: I have to tell you, there are so many of those memes that like home is where the bra isn't and I'm like, I would wear my bra 24 hours a day. I love them wearing one right now. but ask me the last time I put shoes on that. Weren't for exercise. Naomi: You know what I did today, Tammy? My daughter forgot something and I had to take it to her to school and I. Winton my slippers and I was very proud of it. I was like, this actually feels great. No bra slippers. I don't know if that's appropriate for a candidate, but, I thought it was just fine. Tami: yes, I have to say I'm a fan of the conversations I'm seeing online about people talking about What will we do with the high heels? Will we have a high heels museum because no, one's going to be wearing heels after COVID. They're like, I'm sorry, my feet have expanded back to their natural size and I don't do that anymore. Naomi: Amen to that. Tami: Right. I'm like, . Naomi: There might be some relationships museums that need to happen too. Tami: Oh, I keep whispering about, so you might get a new spouse and people are like, I know, right. Naomi: It's so it's, so that's a form of self-care too. Is pairing garden of like weed out, weed, out, weed out. Tami: yes. Okay. So, we are gen X gals. So what you're gen X, right? Naomi: Yes, I am. Okay. I don't know why I was disappointed. Tami: I'm like, wait a second. I was doing the math. I'm like, no, your genetics too. Yeah. so what did you learn about self care growing up? Naomi: I know Tami: exactly where like nothing. Naomi: So it's an interesting, and so mom, if you're listening to this is all set in love. my mom was the poster child for minimalism. no makeup, never. our clothes were either handmade or passed down or what have you. And that kind of, resonated through everything. And so she actually was a great example of self-care. It just took me all these years to realize it, lots of time outside, healthy foods in our body. we were a slow household, slow lifestyle, slow living. part of that was because we were homeschooled and we had the opportunity to do it. And part of it was because my grandfather and that family, one of the pillars and values of the home was do it slow. Remember, create good memories. And so I had actually a great self care. Routine modeled for me, but I rebelled against it because it wasn't fast. It didn't feel innovative or fun or adventurous. and now that I'm 44, I'm like, Oh, she was really smart. So Tami: Emma was a straight up OJI hippie who was a way ahead of her time without paying cash money to be like, how can I get back to what you had growing up? Naomi: So, yeah. Yeah. And then she left, and moved to Africa to be a missionary. And she has been this, like all of us children watch her and we're like, how does she create the boundaries? Literally every day around. I don't want to talk to people right now. And she'll, she doesn't, as a child that doesn't feel great, but to look at it now, I'm like, Oh, she's protecting her energy, in a way that is quite lovely. Tami: I'm. I'm stunned because when we started, when I said, ha we're in gen X and then you're like, wait a second. No, I mean, I learned it all. And again, you rebelled against it. Do you think that you rebelled against it because it's also super counter-cultural for having a slow life? Naomi: I do. I also think that, when we're children, we think that's what everyone does. Whatever that is, divorced kids of divorced families think everyone's got a divorced family, and so I think I put all of the, my childhood into a box. And then when I started to realize, Oh, there's other options, I craved something else. and then it just, it took the physical manifestation of it was to rebel against it and to kind of have a little fast life, replacement, but, Yeah, I think it is counter-culture. And then who is it that deems that is that slow living is wrong. And I think that's, that's been a beautiful thing through quarantine for those that aren't, I know there's so much suffering that is attached to COVID and so I don't want to minimize that, but, it has brought people back to the remembrance of what slowing down does for a body and does for a relationship and does for self. Tami: Absolutely. And it's one of the conversations that we've had in our house. Is that not much about our life changed in COVID? because. I am. My, one of my friends calls me a super hippie with a great haircut. She's you don't look like a hippie, but you're a hell of a hippie. I was like, I know. and you can feel a bit like an outcast when you are not doing the soccer runs or the sporting teams or the, this or that. But I'm gonna tell you what you want to come over and make some mud pies you want to build with some Lego. You want to be excited about your one hour of TV a day, come on over. I'll make you some homemade granola and we can use some oat milk this, soak it in, and we'll all feel better when we go to bed on time. Naomi: Yeah. Well, good morning. Tami: We Naomi: were talking offline a little bit about this before, but, we spend so much time assuming things about others and. If we would just talk, stop a little bit longer and realize Oh, that person's so lifestyle or that person's waste lists choices or whatever. there's some meaningful stuff that we can glean from each other. if we would, again, slow down to realize how beautiful it is to go to bed on time or to let the sun wake us up in the morning. If we have that luxury, I don't know. Tami: Yeah, well, and also I'm like, Oh, you could get a Dawn simulate, an alarm clock, and you can be woken up by the sun 365 days a year. which I do that I do like to manipulate the light. However, again, I feel like the way that I'm living my life, is to give other people permission. Cause a lot of people feel like, but you have to do all the things I'm like. You really don't Naomi: right. Tami: It seems like you have to cause people a lot of times you get pushback when you're like, no, thank you. Why don't you want to do that thing? I don't want to. Naomi: Yeah, well, and that's a piece of it. We need to also normalize, not only normalize leaders, not knowing everything, but also normalizing no, as a complete sentence. No thanks. Tami: And usually it's no, thank you. Okay. And nothing stops somebody in their tracks faster when you, when pushed back and they say, why not? You're like, but I don't want to, and I don't want to such a great answer. I feel like it's the best answer, Naomi: but it really is Tami: because you're like, well, I have visions of, so Rosie Molinari and Bernay Brown both talk about, being asked to do things for the bake sale. And Rosie tells a story about how she got asked to do something for a bake sale. She's I don't even baking. I don't even think it's that, but she couldn't figure out how to say no. So she said yes. And then she's I baked some resentment right into those cupcakes. Can you imagine stirring resentment into your baked goods? I don't want your resentment company. Can you just get cupcakes from the grocery store? Sam's resentment and sell those instead. They'll go for a way higher price, Naomi: right? Tami: Right. Naomi: Well, I love it. Tami: Okay. So, so you had this hippie upbringing and then you rebelled against it. So how do you practice self-care now that you're a grownup? Naomi: I think that I mix a combination of physical self-care, the really great mask that makes me feel my skin feel wonderful after drinking more water than. then caffeine caffeinated things. I mixed that kind of stuff with just knowing that I need stillness and, the ways that I refuel, literally, it's so simple that I guess I have to remind myself of this, how simple it is, sun on my face. And as often as the temperatures allow literally bare feet on the grass, And then music is my, probably my biggest self-care as an adult. as loud as it can possibly be. jazz blues, anything that's got a middle, a beginning, a middle and an end, in song I'm a huge fan Tami: of, I love that music is a big part of my self-care too. I am a like, I have super fan start-up or a super fan status for a band called the old 90 sevens. They're out of Dallas. I have loved them since 1997. I have get gotten on airplanes to see them. I am friends with other fans around the country. I've written fantasy set lists. I've asked them to come to my town. I've done all of those things and it gives me life. I love that. Naomi: Yeah, it's good. Tami: It is good. And I do also really enjoy a song with a beginning, a middle and an end, no jam BS for me. Thank you very much. I like a tidy song. where's your self-care going well. And what could use some more attention? Naomi: The, where it's going well is the removal of myself from the day. So the going upstairs at eight o'clock has been really good. I think, I quit drinking in March. And what I've realized through that process of, no longer drinking is that there was so much attached to the habit. And so replacing. And habitually closing down at eight o'clock. I used to, when I grew up, and they spent some time with my grandmother, I was always enamored by the loading of the dishwasher and the whoosh sound of when the dishwasher would start and knowing that she did it then, so that she would wake up to a clean load of dishes in the morning that she would then put away and turning off all, but one light over the sink and washing the counter. So I think I've realized. Now post-menopausal and with kids that are self-sustaining, that there is an art of self care that comes with closing down the house for the night for me. So that's going really well. And it's something I look forward to instead of my glass of wine that started at five now it's Ooh, it's almost eight o'clock. I could shut down the house and go curl up in bed. what could use more attention, in the self care realm? I tend to. Put relationships last. so whether that's, being intentional about my communication with my husband, and with my kids, I think needs some work, because I do derive great joy from my husband and my children and as a form of self care and, reminding myself to laugh and be joyful with them, I need to work on that. Tami: I have to say as my long suffering spouse would attest me too. It's okay, can we have a camera? can we have a whole conversation? I'm like, I guess Naomi: I know, I Tami: guess L and when you said the wound. I know you're like, but it's eight. O'clock I'm putting the house to bed and by the house, I mean, myself, the washer, the dishwasher created a very vivid picture in my mind because my husband, one of his put at the house to bed things is he turns the dishwasher on at night for the same reason. And then, because he likes to be a little extra, love him. He sits down by the dishwasher and meditates to the sound of the dishwasher, whooshing. Naomi: I love that actually, Tami: it's so fantastic. Right? It's it's already there. He keeps the lights out. It's very, it's kind of womb. Like it's very bougie. I love that. okay. So I also have, I jumped on the sober train about six years ago. it's weird. I hardly ever talk about it and it's because it was. Drinking. Wasn't so much a problem for me. It was more of a, this isn't hiding anything. I'm just going to subtract it and see what happens and what happens. And I was like, Oh shit, my anxiety went down. Oh shit. My depression went down. Oh shit. My sleep got a lot better. All of these things. So a lot of people are sober, curious right now. Do you have. A ritual that you have replaced your 5:00 PM cocktail slash wine with, do you have some mock tails? what do you do in that department? Naomi: So I will be truthful here. It wasn't a, it wasn't a glass of wine at 5:00 PM. It was the bottle opened at 5:00 PM. Tami: isn't that how, I'm sorry. Isn't that? How everyone drinks? Well, I think Naomi: what we have is a problem with women in society is that we kid ourselves and we're like, well, I only have two glasses. Tami: and I think that's, the glass is big enough, right? Naomi: It's only two. That is so true. And I think I want to also just kind of piggyback on what you said. Also, I have struggled with talking about it publicly because I don't identify as an alcoholic. However, it was becoming too big of a priority in my life. it was just a habit that, like you said, it was extra. And I was like, why am I adding this? So, when I first. Quit drinking. part of it was because I was an active recovery and was also managing a high level of payments because of my accident. And so the early days of sobriety were pretty simple because it was, I couldn't do both, when I was in active physical therapy, recovery and learning to walk again. And I also couldn't do both once I. Came out of that phase, I was like, Oh, I really miss wine. So I did go through a, a time where I used there's a brand called Seedlip, which has an amazing, Alcohol free spirit. There's one that I really love that citrus space that was delightful as kind of at five o'clock. And then Gruby is also a brand that has, alcohol free beer and, sparkling basically sparkling Rose, drink. So, just something to be able to pour into a glass and watch it bubble and feel like it was that cocktail. Now, though it is, all sparkling water and hot tea all day. As, and I don't really have a five o'clock thing anymore. The other thing that I will say that really helped me was, the book quit, like a woman like, Oh yeah, he would occur. and the reason I loved it is because it wasn't about her sad story. It was science-based, it was, it correlated the habits and the emotional connection with drinking. And it was just, as an input person, the more I knew. So the more I knew about how alcohol is impacting my body and my life, it gave me the tools to be able to say, yeah, no, thanks. It wasn't easy though. I mean, I don't want to be glib and cavalier and just be like, yeah, I just decided one day to stop drinking. it's still an everyday choice. so. Tami: I love this. Naomi: I don't know if that was a wrap up with a bow, but Tami: no, I mean, I just feel like I, again, I want to normalize this idea of you don't have to hit rock bottom to make changes and things don't have to be so out of control to make changes, you can be like, I'm curious, what would my life be like if I took that part of my life out for a little bit and I always start my, My habit changes with the idea of I'm going to do this for a month or six weeks and see how it goes. I'm going to collect data and see how it goes. And for me, there was just a really stark and by the way, not the first time I did this experiment, I've done this experiment on and off for varying degrees of time since I was 30. So I go back and forth between being a drinker and not being a drinker. The thing that I have found this time is it feels different because I'm 50 and ladies, our bodies change and how our bodies metabolite metabolize. I think that's the real word, metabolize alcohol changes over time. And so it felt different and it feels different every day that I don't. It is not to say I'm never going to drink again. What I'm saying is I'm not drinking right now because it doesn't fit into what else I want to do. I want to have the energy to write a book. I want to have the energy to. get stronger and more flexible. I want to have the energy to be the parent. I want to be instead of the snappy bitch that I can be when I have booze in my system. And so again, it's just being curious of, I wonder what my life would be like if I ran for office, what would my life be like if I replaced my booze for a month with some fancy tonic water or some non-alcoholic spirit, what would happen? Naomi: The one, like the Tami: ritual of stuff too. I just don't think you have to use the original, the original thing. Like I don't drink coffee. I think coffee is. Disgusting, but I like going to coffee with people cause I enjoy how they do the things and it's all live, Naomi: Well, and it's also all, a lot of this is big business. Self care is big business, And so if we look at it from that frame of what else could I choose for me right now? Like I gave up wine, but I sure as hell did not give up sugar. so the replacement of taking wine out of my system made me realize how addicted I actually was to the sugar. so like I'm looking at my little stash of almond joy and. Reese's peanut butter cups next to me. so I'm not a purist. I'm not by not drinking. I'm not perfect. I've just, like you said, chosen to not have that be one Avenue or choice. Also that I'm not choosing to spend money on. Good Lord. Was I spending a lot of money on alcohol? Tami: Right. And I know I was, I have recently started to, explore the world of legal cannabis, because it's totally legal. Even for recreational use. I'm no longer a smoker of anything. Like I. By the way I used to smoke cigarettes and I know everyone's Oh, that's so gross. I know, but I'm one of those people it's you don't, we should all be able to do smoke, but we can't. So I'm kind of bummed about that. So, but I don't smoke cannabis. I have however, dipped my toe into medicinal use of edibles and Oh my God. I will become the poster child for just a tiny bit of a gummy knocks me on my butt and lets me sleep during tumultuous times in the world, Naomi: which, we've just happened to be going through several iterations of that right now, Tami: all at the same time. and I don't have any residual, I don't have any hangover like I do with booze. And so. I have a little bit of something to go to sleep and that I wake up and I'm like, yay team. I'm awake. And Naomi: I will also say the one thing that I've learned too in my sobriety experiment, because I think that like you, it's also like I majoring in the future, I don't know. is that I have been able to challenge my judgment of other people. I noticed for a while, when I was in the active phase of becoming sober, that a lot of folks stopped talking to me about Their consumption or their choice or their new favorite wine. And I was like, please keep talking about it. Like it's not. That's w we need to be able to normalize alcohol, whether it's consumption or sobriety or the taste of it, or the love of a new drink, or, Tami: like I just confessed my love of cigarettes. So yeah. I'm with you. Naomi: Well, I have, I actually have, I'll have to send you a photo. I have the best set of pearls that I bought for myself when I quit smoking. So I'm a former cigarette smoker also, Tami: right? Like it's a thing. No, and it's funny. I also, I. I lost some social connection when I quit drinking also with some people. And I realized, Oh, I think I might've just did a lot of drinking with that person, but I also gained a lot of other relationships. And so it, it all worked out in the balance for me. Yeah, but it was a little tricky at first and I did Holly's book. so if you guys haven't read, quit like a woman yet, please do there's. There's so many sober, curious books. If you are feeling that way, go ahead and dip your toe. Naomi, what is your morning routine? Naomi: It's very slow, Tammy. I so my daughter is a freshman in high school and she has been back to school in person since the beginning of the. 20, 20, 21 school year. and so she gets up at about six. I hear her and wake up because of, household noise. I usually lay in bed. I use the insight timer for a few of my favorite morning meditations. I do some stretches, as part of my, at home, continuing physical therapy for my leg. I'm not a makeup where, so my. Actual like getting ready routine, just consists of throwing on something and a great pair of earrings. I use a wonderful Rose oil from trader Joe's for my face. And then I spend about 45 minutes with my daughter while I'm making coffee and unloading the dishwasher while she gets ready for school. And then the next hour, once she leaves for school is mine. for either writing or reading or sitting, there's a lot of mornings where I just sit in that chair in the corner of my office.   because I feel like I have to have space. And I'm not a super woo person, but to kind of get the download for the day, what is it that I want to be, how do I want to show up? What do I want to leave with people that I interact with? little sensory and I guess in some grounded-ness and then from nine o'clock on, it's a shit show, but at least if didn't have that hour. Tami: Absolutely. And what's so funny is I did an episode. I'll link to it, my morning routine and everyone's Oh my God, I can't wait to see what you do. And I'm like, okay, it's real boring. There is so much reflection. Good luck. Basically, I journal my morning away and then I meditate and then exercise and I eat. Yeah. There was like, But what about I'm like, there's no big skincare routine. There's no big shower. Do my hair. There's none of that. But let me tell you, I have years of tracking my sleep. I got years of tracking my mood years of what was my intention for that day. And how did it go? I love the word download because I feel like when I get quiet that's when my, The best ideas I'm ever going to have come in those quiet Naomi: moments. I think about all of the retreats and the reason why we like hotels and like all of the things that like we think would be so wonderful. We can replicate by just being still in, quiet in our own space. Tami: As somebody who used to lead retreats, co-sign all I did as a retreat leader was hold space for you to be quiet and feed you good food. But it is a very much the holding the space of and now we be quiet. Yeah, absolutely. So what else do you want people to know about you and where can people find you online?   Naomi: so I'll go with the easy answer. First, the, where people can find me if you're interested in learning more about the city council race, and even if you're not anywhere close to Omaha, but want to follow along as I try to candidly be really authentic through this campaign. it's Naomi for city council, either at.com on the website or in any social space. It's Naomi for city council. And then my personal website and then my personal, life is just add to Naomi hideaway. So Naomi, how do we.com or any of the social spaces? And it's everyone always wants to call me Hathaway. It's H a T w a Y.   I think the other things that I would love for people to know about me are that, I show up messy all of the time. and I think I would love for more people to consider that way of being in the world. I lead with love. I know that people say that love and kindness are kind of soft skills, but I think that they are necessary, for our leaders to have. And, I also am a huge proponent of leaving well. So if you're in a space where you're leaving something, whether it's moving or a new relationship or a new job, look up the concept of leaving. Well, it's a way to really document and be intentional about, leaving one space and entering another. and if you want book suggestions, I have a ton. I'm an avid reader. Otherwise I don't think there's anything else. I want people to know about me. We've done a really good job of covering some basis. Tami: Wait. So did you say leaving L E a V I N G. Well, Naomi: leaving. Well, Tami: Oh, I'm going to get my Google fingers on, but can you give everyone cause I'm like, I have questions. So the one question I have on that is what does that mean? Naomi: So it was actually a phrase that was termed by a friend of mine. Whose name is Jerry Jones. He is in the intercultural space of, living abroad and he had talked about it early on from a way to leave one overseas assignment to go to another one. And I borrowed it. Like all of the best ideas are borrowed, right. I borrowed it and implemented it into my real estate practice. So I really believe strongly that families by no fault of their own, forget about kiddos when they're moving and the kids are the last ones to. be provided support. And so I helped my clients understand how to help their kids leave well. So that means like neighborhood walks, in your old neighborhood, go to places that you love to take photographs at your favorite bench in the park. Go have one last ice cream, for people that are homeowners, if you're selling right. A little note of goodbye to the house in the inside closet of your kiddos room, If you can better assimilate into a new environment, if you've properly said goodbye to the old one, Oh God. Tami: As it's gone, this is ringing my bell right now. Ooh, I think I have some things. This is a good idea Naomi: and think about it too. so I am working with my team right now on some of this leaving. Well, they don't know it yet, but it's an act of, subtle suggestion. So if I know that a contract's coming to an end, or I know that, people are going to have to say goodbye, starting to identify the lessons you've learned and just being grateful to each other saying, thank you for teaching me this. realizing the things that you didn't have time to do yet. that's even a way to lead well is Ooh, when I started this job, I wanted to. Have this as a success measure and I didn't get there. And then being able to like close that loop helps with the next job. It helps in relationships. all sorts of, it's just, it's such a great concept, to live like with, Tami: I absolutely love it. Thank you for that. And it's reminding me, I'm doing a workshop at the end of the year. I haven't decided on the name yet, but it's going to be something like. make 20, 21 your best year ever. But the first third of the workshop is going to be about hugging 2020 and saying I'm so glad we got to spend so much time together. whew. Let me look at all the great things that happened. Let me look at all the, not so great things that happen, but to like really make peace with 2020 before we go into 2021. Yep. Naomi: So you could leave. Well, you could have your folks leave. Well, 20, 20. Tami: Oh my God. Well, I might be stealing that just to be, I might be like leave 20, 20 well, and people are like, okay. Crazy bird. I need to get out of here. I'm like, well, but you have to make peace with what came before you can really embody what comes before you. Naomi: Yeah, absolutely. Tami: Okay. Naomi, are you ready for the quickfire questions that never end up being cool WIC? Yes. Cool. Because I like to talk apparently, Naomi Hattaway, what is your Enneagram? Naomi: I am a very classic eight wings. Seven. Tami: Yeah. I am so excited because last year when Holly and I did our Enneagram series, I was convinced that I didn't like eights. And here's some news flashing people. I, some of my favorite people I have connected with in 2020 are healthy eights. Oh, my goodness. A healthy eight is a person I want to sit by because they have all the good ideas. I'm like, Oh, let's do this together. Natural leaders. Amazing folks. Okay. Naomi, are you an introvert or an extrovert? Naomi: So, my Myers-Brigg is an E N F J, which means that I. Present is extroverted, but if we talk about the way that we recharge, I think I'm a hundred percent introverted. so I think it depends on your definition of extrovert versus introvert. I love people and I can get up on a stage and talk. And I don't ha I don't show fear. I think we often think of extroverted people as the bubbly, outgoing people. So I would lean that way, but. If you're looking at the recharging definition of it, how do you fuel? It's not from people it's from stillness and quiet. Tami: Okay. Well, I will just tell you, I am an I N F J O. Everybody is you're not an introvert. I'm like, girl, I stopped listening to you five minutes ago. You don't see those close signs on my eyelids. And again, I present very forward. Very confident, again, speaking as not an issue, what I'm not interested in. Is boring. Chit-chat yup. I'm going to ask you some shit and we are going to go deep and we're going to go fast and we're probably going to hug and then I'm going to go home cause I'm going to need a break. Naomi: Absolutely. Yup. Tami: Okay. All right. On the Gretchen Rubin for tenancies, are you a questioner, an upholder, an obliger, or a rebel? Naomi: I'm a rebel. Tami: I love rebels cause I'm a questioner, but I totally lean all middle fingers towards the level. Naomi: it's interesting though. Are you familiar with the disc? it's decider. Oh, no, I can't remember what they all are caring. We S as the steady eye is, I can remember Tami: that. I think it's going to have to be a 20, 21 goal for me. A couple people have mentioned it. I'm like, Ooh, there's framework. I don't know. But the reason I bring it up is Naomi: because there's a natural state and a learned state with disc. And my natural state is very high D which is the driven decider. That's why I'm a rebel. That's why I'm an eight. And I think that then what the beauty of disc is it lets you also have an adapted and in the adapted version, I've learned how to soften some of that soften the rebel soften the decider soften the eight. And I think that, from an Enneagram perspective, that's where the health comes in of realizing where to bring out certain things. So anyway, that might be something fun for you to, Tami: influence I'll explore 20, 21. And the reason I also giggle at that is my natural inclination is once people say you have to blah, blah, blah. I'm like, Oh, that is hilarious. I don't have to do shit. However, Should you convince me, this is a great idea. I have ways to improve it because I'm a one, right? So, but it's funny. I thought I was an eight for a while and then my therapist fell off her chair and was like, girl, you've been telling me your secrets for 20 years. You're a one Naomi: hysterical. Tami: I was like, okay. But anyway, I love rebels because man. They get shit done. Naomi: We do see that goes back to that thing though, about sitting on my hands. Like I've had to learn to not always be the rebel eight, Tami: right? No, absolutely. But there's also this story that rebels tell themselves, they're like, ah, you can't make me do anything and neither can I, and I'm like, that is also true. And the other side of that is just the, but once you decide. You don't need anyone to hold you accountable because you're too busy wearing the crown, you're doing the thing we're in the crown man, duh. I said I was going to do it now. I'm doing it. Yep. Okay. Love language. What'd you got. so love Naomi: language. I'm joking with you right now, but my love language right now is people policy. Tami: I will say I'm here for it. Naomi: I kid, but I do want a t-shirt that says that, my love language is acts of service a hundred percent all the way. Tami: Love it. That's my secondary, what we should get as well, because I actually posted on Instagram recently that my love language is people who vote. And, that's true. So I'll send you a gold star because my true love language is, words of affirmation. Naomi: Okay. Tami: Okay. My second is acts of service. I call it getting shit done and gold stars, but you know, What Chapman has his way of talking to you? Naomi: Yes, he does. my husband is a gift person, which I don't like. I love getting a book in the mail. I love getting like. A quote, that's a magnet, like I love that kind of thing, but he is the King of gift giving and I'm like, thank you for that. it's gifts is way on the bottom. Tami: I, me too, when my husband and I, he okay. A, I bought him this book for his birthday one year and he's Okay. Your role, what do you seven? You want to read this book? And I was like true, but I think it'll help both of us. So we'll both read it. He's just tell me if there's a quiz, so he's never read it. But what we did do is when we both found out that our top two, gold stars and getting shit done, we stopped buying presence. Naomi: So nice. Tami: And we're like, Oh, thank God the pressure's off. And when I want a present, I'm like, Hey, this is a present giving thing. Let me send you a list. And he says, thank you all happy. Right. I love it. Yeah. It's we're just real honest with, I it's so funny. I have a torture relationship with the book because it gets real Jesus. See at the end and I'm like, dammit. Gary knock it off because I do find that framework to be very helpful. Naomi: There's a great as your daughter gets older, there's a five language, five love languages for teens, and a workbook that I would highly recommend. Tami: Well, I already read the five love languages for children and, unbeknownst to her had been testing them out. That girl is a quality time with, Gold stars attached and she knows that she can get us by doing stuff. So we're, I play board games with my child four times a day. When she actually goes to school, I play board games with my child three times a day. That what I'm telling you, not much about our life has changed except the location of school, but she's we've already played, sorry, and UNO. And it's 10 42 in the morning. Naomi: Oh, that's a lot of day left. Tami: Exactly. We will be playing more for sure. Okay. Now we're to the real reason I have a podcast is to get everyone's book list. Naomi: What Tami: is your favorite last most recent Naomi: book? The most recent favorite. Last is the address book by Dierdra mask. it is all about street addresses and what they reveal about race, wealth and power. Tami: Oh my God. Well Naomi: guess who's going to be Tami: getting that book. See, this is why I do this because I've never heard of it. And I can't wait to read it. Naomi: the other one though, that is a very close second for the most favorite recent is me a bird songs. how we show up, I think is the title. Okay. Someone. So I can't reference it, but I'm pretty sure it's how we show up. And it's by me, a bird song and it's beautiful. Tami: Okay, well, I'm literally writing it down cause I'm going to go to my library app and add these to my list. What is your favorite book of all time and feel free to give me several, because this is the choose amongst your darlings. Please don't make me choose. Naomi: Yes. okay. So from a being a boss standpoint, radical candor. Tami: Oh my God. I love that book so much. Naomi: so do I, From a pondering self care liturgical, not in the religious sense way. Parker Palmer on the brink of everything is like the poor book is so highlighted and underlined. It's not even funny. from a political standpoint, Amanda, Litman's run for something book. It's literally like real talk guide and that's what the tagline is. And it's so true. and then I have to give a shout out to Resmah comes my grandmother's hands. I have never read a book that was so helpful in terms of learning about oppression and trauma to a body. It's a little sematic. It's a little anti-racism, but what he does masterfully is brings together the white. Historical lived experience in a body from Europe. the black lived experience trauma from Africa and the police body trauma from being forced into law enforcement. It's just brilliant. and I think the thing that I resonate most with him about is that he asks people when they're reading it to take a pause, like every couple of chapters, he's okay, put the book down. Here's some lessons I want you to like, Permanently sit in and live with and then bring the book back. so that's, it's a tough book, but it is amazing. The other thing that I think I would say is that I love any book where the author is available to their readers and resume is one of those Tami: available to their readers. In what way? Naomi: on social media, like on Instagram, I connected with him and this is a great story. I connected with him, told him I was reading the book from the library and realized I'm going to have to buy the book because he wants us to like, sit with it. and he was so great. He's give me your address. I'll send you one. That's okay. but he said, I just asked that you come back and continue this conversation with me about how the book has sat with you. So that's what I mean, like he is, he's just available for folks that are willing to put in the work of learning. Tami: I'm just going to tell you people, if you are listening to this and you're wondering how to connect and make people true fans of your work, that's it? Yep. What I said earlier about the old 90 sevens, they came to my town as a suggestion because I wrote them a letter. At 40 years old and was like, you should come to Sacramento, you should play at this club. They did. And then when they came, I wrote my fantasy set list, sent it on social media and then they played it. Naomi: That's amazing. Tami: And shouted me out from the stage. And I was like, I have died in this club, a million deaths because of this. Yes, Naomi: I have another favorite. Tami: Yes. Naomi: Zombie loyalists by Peter Shankman. And the reason I just brought that up is because what you just expressed was that band was creating a zombie loyalist in you through the way that they worked and interacted with you. You will always shout them out and you will tell everyone about them. And so while they're sleeping, You're doing the work of marketing for them. So for anyone who's listening to this, it's brilliant. Tami: I mean, it's so funny. Just the other day, rat, the singer was reading poetry on to shout out a poet and he was reading poetry and somebody, I didn't see it cause I don't follow the poet and somebody tagged me. I was like, This is the best bang ever. Like I am like one of those fantasies after a show. And you're driving home from San Francisco in the middle of the night with your friends. You're like, what scenario should we put our favorite singer in? That would be like the most pleasure. Well, and the number one thing was let's have Rett reading us stories from a book. Naomi: I love it, but that's where it really, it becomes personal and it becomes engaging and think of. Now  think of all of our elected officials behaved that way. Tami: exactly. PS. That's why I love Twitter because most people don't hand their Twitter off to social media managers. A lot of people handle their own Twitter. Pro tip get on Twitter. I know people are like, I hate Twitter. I'm like that's for all the kids. I don't know if I'm qualified to hang out are so I like to hang out there and be like, hi, I don't have much to say, but I'm here to learn. Naomi: Well, but the thing about Twitter though, like we were talking about being able to say no, thank you like that. That resonates with social media too. You can just say no, thank you to a conversation and no, thank you to engaging with stuff that makes you feel icky or uncomfortable, that's true. Tami: So, okay, so that does lead me to two questions. One, what is your favorite personal development book followed of course by what's your favorite social media channel? Naomi: Oh goodness. So I thought that the, self development book was going to be the easiest one to answer. When we talked about this earlier, I want to give a shout out to Alex ELLs after the rain. it is a newly published. I don't think that she would call it a self development book, but it is a self-awareness tool to help guide you through some really cool self personal development stuff. Love Tami: it. And was that a, is that a 20, 20 bucks? Naomi: Yeah, she crowdfunded it and now it's out. and her last name is E L E and she's also exquisitely producing some meditations and, she's just a cool cat. Tami: Love it. All right. So what is your favorite media? Social media channel. Instagram. Okay. And are you a grid person or are you a story's reels person? Like what's your jam? Naomi: So I have a really cool grid on my city council site that I'm really struggling with because I don't want to mess it up, but I know I have to get more engaged on the grid. I am a stories person though, hands down. I do love though, the grid to be able to storytell. And put my writing out there. Cindy Spiegel, who runs the CRA the community that we keep referring to deer growing Tami: up. Grown-ass women, ladies, dear grown-ass woman, you should join Naomi: it where it's at. Cindy does a really good job of using her Instagram profile posts for storytelling. and I do love that, but I just really love stories. Tami: I know Cindy is a master at many things and using social is one of them, for sure. Absolutely love her. what is your favorite TV show? Oh, different things. You gotta get different things for different, Twitter for learning Twitter for laughing, because one of my favorite things is. Not being the smartest kid in the room. It makes me nervous when I'm the smartest person in the room. I'm like, you guys, we got we're up shit Creek, because I feel like if I have to be in charge, we're not going to get very far. So when I go on Twitter, I'm always like, there's a hundred million people here who are way smarter than me. Thank goodness. I know where they all are and I can visit. so I do love, I'd love Twitter for that. And I like the direct access to people that you can get through Twitter that I can't seem to find anywhere else. I love Instagram for connecting to people and here's how I love a story. And I am always the person. If you ask a question in an Instagram story, I will be answering it because. It's lonely. When you ask a question, no one answers it. And I never want someone to feel like they are like, Oh man, no one likes me here. This is dumb. So I'm always like my favorite color is blue. I'm glad you asked that. What is your favorite color? So I think it's such a great way to get into people's lives. I feel like Instagram is the place. When I meet somebody, I immediately follow them Instagram. And I do some immediate engagement. I like to engage people who follow me. I like to engage people, on their page, on my page. I just like the engagement, but you have, do you have to be, you can't be a passive. consumer of Instagram, Naomi: no, it won't work for you that Tami: it doesn't work that way. Like it is a, it's a thing we have to be social. And then Facebook, I think is stupid and I'm only there because lots of people are there. and I would rather not be, but I feel like I have to be. So what's funny is I've been using my personal Instagram to irritate the shit out of people by just. I, my personal campaign has to be, when I feel anxious about the election, I give a small donation in hopes to flip the Senate, and then I go on Instagram and I use a very obnoxious all heart. I emoji of myself that says flipping the Senate is on my mind. Mike X Mike SB and Mississippi got a donation from me today. And I have a list of 15 candidates that I just run through the list. I'm like Raphael Warnock in Georgia got a donation from me. Jamie, Harrison's going to be getting everyone's Christmas gift. Cause I hate Lindsay Graham. Oh, did you say Theresa Greenfield in Iowa? Cause you can't stand Joni Ernst. That's what I said, everyone flipping the Senate's on my mind. So. The nice thing about that is I know I'm irritating some people, which I'm like cool, because after the election, if you haven't posted about the election, we're no longer friends on Facebook. So I'm using it as a weeding out tool. And lots of people on Facebook have been like, Oh my God, I'm going to give donations to Naomi: peer politics, political Tami: persuasion. Yeah. and it makes me laugh every time I do it. So it eases my anxiety. It, I'm engaging others. I'm normalizing that process. Like so many people are like, I'm going to go broke doing this. I'm like, well, I'm only giving $5 at a time and they're like, I am too. And I was like, cool. I was like, I really am taking it out of my holiday. Present buying, go back to earlier gifts. Aren't my love language. Apparently flipping the Senate is my love language. And so I'm using my Facebook for that right now. I love it. Yeah. what's your favorite TV show? Naomi: I am a fan of anything that Ava DuVernay puts out. and I love that this is a series. Tami: Okay. My fun fact, my husband's best friend from high school was on this as well. Oh, Naomi: I love that. Tami: Yeah. And he did not look like that in high school. I'll just Naomi: say, Tami: it's so funny. I saw him at a wedding many years after high school and was like, who's the hot guy that's here. I'm like Naomi: what? Tami: That guy did look like that in high school. cause I love that people can become legit movie stars. And that was never the person you think it's going to be from high school. Right. Anyway. Okay. This is my favorite question because it always is the question that gets me an explicit rating on every single episode. So I never have to wonder if I have to check the box and it is directly from inside the actors studio, Naomi Haddaway. What is your favorite swear word? Naomi: My favorite swear word is a combination of three words and it is for fuck's sake. Tami: FFS. Yes. I love that. Yes. I think you're the one first cause everybody loves. Yeah, well everybody, no, not for fuck. I mean, literally, almost everyone says fuck. And they have, and they always say it with a laugh with Gusto. but nobody has said for fuck's sake yet. And I have to say. I love it. That is a, it is a well-used phrase. Naomi: It's bless your heart. You never really know why someone or how someone is using it. and you're like, Oh, is she mad? Or is she like pleasantly annoyed? Or is she really piss off? Tami: I love that as a California native, nobody ever says, bless your Naomi: heart. I'm married to a Southern boy, so, okay. Tami: Right. And I think that w West coasters, when they hear that, they're like, Naomi: Huh? Well, I think it's a term of endearment and then those that don't know that they've just said, Oh, you're an idiot. Tami: Right? They're like, here, let me translate your West coast thoughts to what it actually means. And then you're like, damn. Naomi: Yeah. Tami: Damn, that's a good one. Have you Naomi: really amazing person, that you would absolutely love speaking of Southern and Georgia and bless your hearts? she is running for Senate and I'm going to look her up really fast while I talk and fill this space. because her, Twitter speed is everything. Tami: Wait, so is she running for the Georgia house? The state Senate Naomi: she is running for. It says Georgia house. Yes. District 67. Her name is Angela Mayfield and her Twitter handle is pink rock to pus. This is for tagline, Georgia sass machine Southern is all get out. Y'all means all. I was born to bake biscuits and build a better Georgia. And I'm a lot of flour. Ah, Tami: okay. So pink. What sass pink. Naomi: Rock. And then the last part of octopus. So it's like P rock tapas, T O P U S. Tami: All right. Well guess what? She just got to follow. Naomi: She's amazing. Tami: I have to say I am so thrilled to connect with women. Hell maybe I'll ask her to be on my podcast. I'm so thrilled to connect with women who are seeing. Holes seeing problems, seeing issues and are like, you know what? I think I might actually be part of the solution. I'd like to give it a shot. so thank you for, letting me into your life and thank you for connecting with me and thank you for coming here and, letting me get to know you better. Hey everyone. Go. Do the things where we do the follows and continue these conversations on social, you can find both of us on Instagram and as always, you can go to the show notes for this show at www.tamihackbarth.com/episode 71. And we will talk to you soon and remember that you matter too.  

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